Red Lead - Still Used?

[me]

I haven't done large scale body work in ages... but back in the day,
we always used a tube of red lead to fill the minor imperfections. In
watching the various rebuild shows on TV, I don't see anyone using it
anymore. I do see them bondoing the whole car... not so sure I like
that. The do block out the whole car, but then it's back to more bondo
if there's an imperfection.

Is red lead still in use? Or is everyone using large amounts of bondo?

[Dick Cheney]

Post by me
I haven't done large scale body work in ages... but back in the day,
we always used a tube of red lead to fill the minor imperfections. In
watching the various rebuild shows on TV, I don't see anyone using it
anymore. I do see them bondoing the whole car... not so sure I like
that. The do block out the whole car, but then it's back to more bondo
if there's an imperfection.
Is red lead still in use? Or is everyone using large amounts of bondo?

I started doing body work in the late 70's and had not heard of it until
now.

I had trouble finding an internet reference, but found one identifying it as
a mixture of linseed oil and lead, making a putty.

I remember in '82 the boss had an Edsel and the shop old timer still had his
lead and tools, and fixed a dent on the Edsel with lead.
No doubt its a hell of a lot better than bondo, but I think they made bondo
so breathing a little isn't going to hurt you. I can't say the same about
lead.

Now minor imperfections are filled with some really fine, easy to spread
bondo.




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[hls]

Post by me
I haven't done large scale body work in ages... but back in the day,
we always used a tube of red lead to fill the minor imperfections. In
watching the various rebuild shows on TV, I don't see anyone using it
anymore. I do see them bondoing the whole car... not so sure I like
that. The do block out the whole car, but then it's back to more bondo
if there's an imperfection.
Is red lead still in use? Or is everyone using large amounts of bondo?

Around here, "red lead" was a term used for a red primer coat, perhaps
originally containing lead. This same paint was used to spray rear end
gears to "pattern" them as a check on the adjustment.

"Leading" a car with real metallic lead was often done in the old days.
It came in bars, rolls, etc and was heated and applied to the tinned
surface when it was about the consistency of butter.

I dont know of anyone locally who could or would use lead anymore.
It might not even be legal.

The polymeric fillers like Bondo can do a good job and last a long long
time if applied properly.

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

"Leading" a car with real metallic lead was often done in the old days. It
came in bars, rolls, etc and was heated and applied to the tinned surface
when it was about the consistency of butter.
I dont know of anyone locally who could or would use lead anymore. It
might not even be legal.

I got two bars of it...

[c***@webtv.net]

I am using putty (wood putty) to fill in nail holes while I am working
on my house.
cuhulin

[AMuzi]

Post by c***@webtv.net
I am using putty (wood putty) to fill in nail holes while I am working
on my house.
cuhulin

Good application! Won't rust around that sort of patch.

[AMuzi]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

"Leading" a car with real metallic lead was often done in the old days. It
came in bars, rolls, etc and was heated and applied to the tinned surface
when it was about the consistency of butter.
I dont know of anyone locally who could or would use lead anymore. It
might not even be legal.

I got two bars of it...

I have a few too. But after much bitching years ago, I have
to admit the "lead free lead" works just as well.

[Steve W.]

Post by Hachiroku ハチロク

"Leading" a car with real metallic lead was often done in the old days. It
came in bars, rolls, etc and was heated and applied to the tinned surface
when it was about the consistency of butter.
I dont know of anyone locally who could or would use lead anymore. It
might not even be legal.

I got two bars of it...

I still have a bunch and use it if I'm doing a classic. Normal work gets
bondo....

It is getting difficult to buy the good stuff any more though.

[Steve W.]

Post by me
I haven't done large scale body work in ages... but back in the day,
we always used a tube of red lead to fill the minor imperfections. In
watching the various rebuild shows on TV, I don't see anyone using it
anymore. I do see them bondoing the whole car... not so sure I like
that. The do block out the whole car, but then it's back to more bondo
if there's an imperfection.
Is red lead still in use? Or is everyone using large amounts of bondo?

Red Lead is no longer available.
Now the tools of choice are poly filler or aluminum filled poly filler.
For small pin holes or grinding marks there is spot putty.

[me]

Post by Steve W.
Red Lead is no longer available.
Now the tools of choice are poly filler or aluminum filled poly filler.
For small pin holes or grinding marks there is spot putty.

I see that my slang was a bad idea. We used to call it red lead, but I
think it was really "spot putty". Came in a large tube about 2" in
diameter and 8" long. Seemed like primer that had the consistency of
peanut butter coming out of the tube. Traditionally it was red in
color. I always thought that it was named "red lead" because it was
some sort of lead based paint as a base.

So, let's change my post... anyone using "spot putty" anymore?

[Hachiroku ハチロク]

Post by me

Post by Steve W.
Red Lead is no longer available.
Now the tools of choice are poly filler or aluminum filled poly filler.
For small pin holes or grinding marks there is spot putty.

I see that my slang was a bad idea. We used to call it red lead, but I
think it was really "spot putty". Came in a large tube about 2" in
diameter and 8" long. Seemed like primer that had the consistency of
peanut butter coming out of the tube. Traditionally it was red in color. I
always thought that it was named "red lead" because it was some sort of
lead based paint as a base.
So, let's change my post... anyone using "spot putty" anymore?

Got two tubes of it in the garage...

There's also "glazing putty" which is the same thing, only different. ;)
(It's not red...)

[AMuzi]

Post by me

Post by Steve W.
Red Lead is no longer available.
Now the tools of choice are poly filler or aluminum filled poly filler.
For small pin holes or grinding marks there is spot putty.

I see that my slang was a bad idea. We used to call it red lead, but I
think it was really "spot putty". Came in a large tube about 2" in
diameter and 8" long. Seemed like primer that had the consistency of
peanut butter coming out of the tube. Traditionally it was red in
color. I always thought that it was named "red lead" because it was
some sort of lead based paint as a base.
So, let's change my post... anyone using "spot putty" anymore?

Yes, where 3 passes of wetsanded primer would take too long.
It's great for sandscratches and other similar minor fills.

I use metallic lead substitute for actual dents. Others use
polyester fillers. Both work. A glob of spot putty can
shrink and crack, spoiling the job.

[Dick Cheney]

Post by me

Post by Steve W.
Red Lead is no longer available.
Now the tools of choice are poly filler or aluminum filled poly filler.
For small pin holes or grinding marks there is spot putty.

I see that my slang was a bad idea. We used to call it red lead, but I
think it was really "spot putty". Came in a large tube about 2" in
diameter and 8" long. Seemed like primer that had the consistency of
peanut butter coming out of the tube. Traditionally it was red in
color. I always thought that it was named "red lead" because it was
some sort of lead based paint as a base.
So, let's change my post... anyone using "spot putty" anymore?

Nobody doing quality work that I know uses it, we figured that
it was lacquer base and cracked after awhile.

Now you get the finish grade of bondo or whatever filler you use.
That red and gray stuff in the tube took too long to dry and you
found it cracked under the paint a couple years later.
No damn good.



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[me]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 12:41:43 -0700, "Dick Cheney" <Dick

Post by Dick Cheney
Nobody doing quality work that I know uses it, we figured that
it was lacquer base and cracked after awhile.
Now you get the finish grade of bondo or whatever filler you use.
That red and gray stuff in the tube took too long to dry and you
found it cracked under the paint a couple years later.
No damn good.

I was taught to only put it on with a razor blade or thick squeegee to
fill very minor imperfections like sanding scratches and to use filler
for anything that was actually "filling", so I doubt mine did much
cracking, but your experience is noted!

Still, I wonder about the use of bondo type fillers. Do you put them
on with a razor blade when you are down to some minor sanding
scratches, or do you just fill with sandable primer until they're
smooth?

[Steve W.]

Post by me

Post by Steve W.
Red Lead is no longer available.
Now the tools of choice are poly filler or aluminum filled poly filler.
For small pin holes or grinding marks there is spot putty.

I see that my slang was a bad idea. We used to call it red lead, but I
think it was really "spot putty". Came in a large tube about 2" in
diameter and 8" long. Seemed like primer that had the consistency of
peanut butter coming out of the tube. Traditionally it was red in
color. I always thought that it was named "red lead" because it was
some sort of lead based paint as a base.
So, let's change my post... anyone using "spot putty" anymore?

Spot putty is available. BUT it no longer contains the lead pigment
which gave it the red color (and the red lead name) and is now called
"glazing putty". Now you can get it in red, green, black and blue.

It's even harder to get body lead now. I'm glad I stocked up a few years
ago.

[hls]

Post by Steve W.

Post by me

Post by Steve W.
Red Lead is no longer available.
Now the tools of choice are poly filler or aluminum filled poly filler.
For small pin holes or grinding marks there is spot putty.

I see that my slang was a bad idea. We used to call it red lead, but I
think it was really "spot putty". Came in a large tube about 2" in
diameter and 8" long. Seemed like primer that had the consistency of
peanut butter coming out of the tube. Traditionally it was red in
color. I always thought that it was named "red lead" because it was
some sort of lead based paint as a base.
So, let's change my post... anyone using "spot putty" anymore?

Spot putty is available. BUT it no longer contains the lead pigment
which gave it the red color (and the red lead name) and is now called
"glazing putty". Now you can get it in red, green, black and blue.
It's even harder to get body lead now. I'm glad I stocked up a few years
ago.

With all due respect, Steve, I dont think the pigment was a lead based
compound.

Glazing putty has been around a long time.

[c***@webtv.net]

How about Fiberglass? for filling in holes and dents? I have done some
fiberglassing on some other things before.
cuhulin

[hls]

Post by c***@webtv.net
How about Fiberglass? for filling in holes and dents? I have done some
fiberglassing on some other things before.
cuhulin

Fiberglass, either as the cloth mat or as the chopped fiber mixed with
the polyester, can be a satisfactory medium for a lot of fixes.

If it is done correctly and used for the right applications, it works well.

[Steve W.]

Post by hls

Post by Steve W.

Post by me

Post by Steve W.
Red Lead is no longer available.
Now the tools of choice are poly filler or aluminum filled poly filler.
For small pin holes or grinding marks there is spot putty.

I see that my slang was a bad idea. We used to call it red lead, but I
think it was really "spot putty". Came in a large tube about 2" in
diameter and 8" long. Seemed like primer that had the consistency of
peanut butter coming out of the tube. Traditionally it was red in
color. I always thought that it was named "red lead" because it was
some sort of lead based paint as a base.
So, let's change my post... anyone using "spot putty" anymore?

Spot putty is available. BUT it no longer contains the lead pigment
which gave it the red color (and the red lead name) and is now called
"glazing putty". Now you can get it in red, green, black and blue.
It's even harder to get body lead now. I'm glad I stocked up a few years
ago.

With all due respect, Steve, I dont think the pigment was a lead based
compound.
Glazing putty has been around a long time.

Most of the colors produced until about 1978 used lead pigments for the
colorant.

White was basic lead carbonate, red is a lead oxide, blue comes from
lead sulfate, with lead oxide carbon and some zinc oxide, yellow,
orange, green, were lead chromates.

Take a look at just about every Navy ship built and the base color under
that paint will still be red lead primer.

The spot putty/glazing putty that was sold up till about 1980 used lead
based pigments. Primary reason being that nothing developed to replace
the lead pigment held up as well.

It is also the reason why the prices of red, blue and yellow auto paints
went through the roof when lead pigments were dropped. The reds went up
almost 300% as did the blue.

[lugnut]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 17:32:14 -0400, "Steve W."

Post by Steve W.

Post by me

Post by Steve W.
Red Lead is no longer available.
Now the tools of choice are poly filler or aluminum filled poly filler.
For small pin holes or grinding marks there is spot putty.

I see that my slang was a bad idea. We used to call it red lead, but I
think it was really "spot putty". Came in a large tube about 2" in
diameter and 8" long. Seemed like primer that had the consistency of
peanut butter coming out of the tube. Traditionally it was red in
color. I always thought that it was named "red lead" because it was
some sort of lead based paint as a base.
So, let's change my post... anyone using "spot putty" anymore?

Spot putty is available. BUT it no longer contains the lead pigment
which gave it the red color (and the red lead name) and is now called
"glazing putty". Now you can get it in red, green, black and blue.
It's even harder to get body lead now. I'm glad I stocked up a few years
ago.

I picked up some bulk lead a while back for another project.
The price has become rediculous. I understand our conflicts
abroad have resulted in much lead being turned into ammo
never to be returned to the system. Ammo is also in a bit
of a shortfall these days with an accompaning high price
when available.

As far as the red lead goes, IIRC, all paint containing lead
was banned by the Federalis in the late 60's or early 70's.
It was good stuff for it's day but modern paints, fillers
and coatings properly applied are far superior for metal
protection.

Lugnut

[c***@webtv.net]

Ford used over 30 types of paint to paint the Model T Ford cars.The
final top coat of paint over the black paint was a deep dark purple
paint.It didn't take long for that purple paint to fade to black.
cuhulin

[Steve W.]

Post by lugnut
I picked up some bulk lead a while back for another project.
The price has become rediculous. I understand our conflicts
abroad have resulted in much lead being turned into ammo
never to be returned to the system. Ammo is also in a bit
of a shortfall these days with an accompaning high price
when available.
As far as the red lead goes, IIRC, all paint containing lead
was banned by the Federalis in the late 60's or early 70's.
It was good stuff for it's day but modern paints, fillers
and coatings properly applied are far superior for metal
protection.
Lugnut

It is getting to the point where lead is being eliminated from most
everything. Even wheel weights and ammo are starting to go lead free.
I have been grabbing all the wheel weights I can just so I have
something to use in the future.



Well sort of. Lead pigmented paint is illegal for the average homeowner
to get. BUT industrial and military can both get is easy enough.
We used some in the old shop and I have painted a LOT of it on ships...
Some modern paint is good stuff. Some is real crap...

[Ad absurdum per aspera]

Post by me
I see that my slang was a bad idea. We used to call it red lead, but I
think it was really "spot putty". Came in a large tube about 2" in
diameter and 8" long. Seemed like primer that had the consistency of
peanut butter coming out of the tube.
So, let's change my post... anyone using "spot putty" anymore?

Well, sure! Great as a top layer if I did a less than perfect body-
filler job, or filling small dimples and gouges that fall between the
realms of filler and high-build primer. Used some just today. It'll
be ready to wet-sand, let dry, and prime tomorrow. I've used it to
finish off a hole in a hollow interior door (destined for a fairly
dark and opaque stain) as well, and that sort of thing.

Perhaps it's a generational thing, but I myself have never used lead,
reaching instead for Bondo or reinforced fillers as step one.
Pulling or welding/brazing to minimize a deep dent, and doing what you
can behind the scenes to prevent flexing of the panel in service, is
important as "step zero" no matter what filler you're using, of
course. As various websites on the subject point out, any filler is
superficial stuff, limited in depth compared to properly shaped and
reinforced sheet metal of adequate gauge, and the more it just sits
there without anything near structural levels of tension, compression,
or torsion, the happier it (and the paint job above it) will be. See
for instance
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/car-restoration/19357-body-filler-lead-one-mans-opinions.html

Cheers,
--Joe

[me]

On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 20:59:47 -0700 (PDT), Ad absurdum per aspera

Post by Ad absurdum per aspera

Post by me
So, let's change my post... anyone using "spot putty" anymore?

Well, sure! Great as a top layer if I did a less than perfect body-
filler job, or filling small dimples and gouges that fall between the
realms of filler and high-build primer. Used some just today. It'll
be ready to wet-sand, let dry, and prime tomorrow. I've used it to
finish off a hole in a hollow interior door (destined for a fairly
dark and opaque stain) as well, and that sort of thing.
Perhaps it's a generational thing, but I myself have never used lead,
reaching instead for Bondo or reinforced fillers as step one.
Pulling or welding/brazing to minimize a deep dent, and doing what you
can behind the scenes to prevent flexing of the panel in service, is
important as "step zero" no matter what filler you're using, of
course. As various websites on the subject point out, any filler is
superficial stuff, limited in depth compared to properly shaped and
reinforced sheet metal of adequate gauge, and the more it just sits
there without anything near structural levels of tension, compression,
or torsion, the happier it (and the paint job above it) will be. See
for instance
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/car-restoration/19357-body-filler-lead-one-mans-opinions.html
Cheers,
--Joe

Nice article for us lightweights. Thanks.

[jon]

Red lead was used for scratches. And pin holes on metal. , came in tube like toothpaste, apply thin layer , sand and then paint and yes color was red …

[AMuzi]

Post by jon
Red lead was used for scratches. And pin holes on metal. ,
came in tube like toothpaste, apply thin layer , sand and
then paint and yes color was red ….

There are several glazing or "spot" compounds for filling
sand scratches and pinholes in a primer before your wetsand
and color. Some of those are red. The one I use is bright
green. Mostly it should contrast the primer color so you
can see where the layers are when wet sanding.

https://www.uschem.com/en/products/finishing-glazes-and-putties/

That's red but it's not lead. Mine's not even red:

Loading Image...

When I was young there was a lead brick red color powder
sold as 'red lead' by weight at hardware stores. The clerk
scooped it into a paper sack on the scale and I rode it home
on my bicycle. My father mixed it with linseed oil to make a
metal primer for downspouts gutters and the like.

https://ihousetop.decorexpro.com/en/strojmaterialy/surik-kraska/

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by jon
Red lead was used for scratches. And pin holes on metal. ,
came in tube like toothpaste, apply thin layer , sand and
then paint and yes color was red 
.

This is lead tetroxide, Pb3O4. I doubt you could buy it at the hardware store
today. It is naturally that color, and used to be used as a pigment as well
as as a metal filler. I know that red lead primer is still available for
industrial use but again, not a True Value item any longer.
--scott

[Don Stauffer]

Post by Steve W.

Post by me
I haven't done large scale body work in ages... but back in the day,
we always used a tube of red lead to fill the minor imperfections. In
watching the various rebuild shows on TV, I don't see anyone using it
anymore. I do see them bondoing the whole car... not so sure I like
that. The do block out the whole car, but then it's back to more bondo
if there's an imperfection.
Is red lead still in use? Or is everyone using large amounts of bondo?

Red Lead is no longer available.
Now the tools of choice are poly filler or aluminum filled poly filler.
For small pin holes or grinding marks there is spot putty.

A number of years ago I needed a new tube, and tried to find it in an
auto parts store. Couldn't. Described it to the counter guy, and he
said, "Oh, Glazing putty! Over there." Sure enough, that is what they
call it- it says so on the tube. Last couple of tubes I've bought call
it that.

To me glazing putty is what you used to hold the glass in a window
frame, but I am outvoted in the marketplace :-)

[c***@webtv.net]

http://www.eastwood.com

Body fillers.
Leadwork and plastic filler DVD.Only $24.99
cuhulin

[AMuzi]

Post by me
I haven't done large scale body work in ages... but back in the day,
we always used a tube of red lead to fill the minor imperfections. In
watching the various rebuild shows on TV, I don't see anyone using it
anymore. I do see them bondoing the whole car... not so sure I like
that. The do block out the whole car, but then it's back to more bondo
if there's an imperfection.
Is red lead still in use? Or is everyone using large amounts of bondo?

I think you conflated red lead based primers (gone now, I
believe) with actual lead filler for dents (from whence the
expression 'lead sled', of which I've owned a few).

I still fill dents in thin steel tube bicycles with 'lead'
which is more properly 'lead-surrogate' nowadays.

example:
Loading Image...

[cavedweller]

Post by AMuzi

Post by me
I haven't done large scale body work in ages... but back in the day,
we always used a tube of red lead to fill the minor imperfections. In

I think you conflated red lead based primers (gone now, I
believe) with actual lead filler for dents (from (sic) whence the
expression 'lead sled', of which I've owned a few).

[c***@webtv.net]

One time, some of those guys at Orange County Choppers, they decided to
apply some sort of fiberglass goop from a can on to a motorcycle steel
seat.Then they changed their minds.They had to beat that fiberglass
stuff off of there with hammers.That was some tough stuff.I think J - B
Weld would do ok for small spots/repairs.About ten years ago, I was
using some J - B Weld for something.I had a tiny dab of J - B Weld left
over on a screwdriver, I put it on the outside top of the tail pipe on
my 1978 Dodge van.That little dab of J - B Weld I put on there is still
there, just as good as new.
My 1983 Dodge van I bought over a year ago, the inside engine cover hood
was broken in six pieces.I put them back together with J - B Weld.Then I
sanded the area nice and smooth, then I painted it with a few spray cans
of paint.I think it will last a long, long time.
cuhulin

[chuckcar]

Post by me
I haven't done large scale body work in ages... but back in the day,
we always used a tube of red lead to fill the minor imperfections. In
watching the various rebuild shows on TV, I don't see anyone using it
anymore. I do see them bondoing the whole car... not so sure I like
that. The do block out the whole car, but then it's back to more bondo
if there's an imperfection.
Is red lead still in use? Or is everyone using large amounts of bondo?

I've seen *actual* lead used to smooth out shape on cars. Much better
way IMHO. The best way short of an English wheel and honest sweat. I had
to wiki red lead. It *does* contain lead actually. It's a compound *of*
lead.

[Steve W.]

Post by chuckcar

Post by me
I haven't done large scale body work in ages... but back in the day,
we always used a tube of red lead to fill the minor imperfections. In
watching the various rebuild shows on TV, I don't see anyone using it
anymore. I do see them bondoing the whole car... not so sure I like
that. The do block out the whole car, but then it's back to more bondo
if there's an imperfection.
Is red lead still in use? Or is everyone using large amounts of bondo?

I've seen *actual* lead used to smooth out shape on cars. Much better
way IMHO. The best way short of an English wheel and honest sweat. I had
to wiki red lead. It *does* contain lead actually. It's a compound *of*
lead.

Lead work is a dying art. Very few of us that still use it. English
wheel, shot bag and hammer work are all becoming lost arts. The current
trend is to slather a coat of bondo on and sanding it out. I still have
all my picks and slappers in the box and use them if I need them.

[chuckcar]

Post by Steve W.

Post by chuckcar

Post by me
I haven't done large scale body work in ages... but back in the day,
we always used a tube of red lead to fill the minor imperfections.
In watching the various rebuild shows on TV, I don't see anyone
using it anymore. I do see them bondoing the whole car... not so
sure I like that. The do block out the whole car, but then it's back
to more bondo if there's an imperfection.
Is red lead still in use? Or is everyone using large amounts of bondo?

I've seen *actual* lead used to smooth out shape on cars. Much better
way IMHO. The best way short of an English wheel and honest sweat. I
had to wiki red lead. It *does* contain lead actually. It's a
compound *of* lead.

Lead work is a dying art. Very few of us that still use it. English
wheel, shot bag and hammer work are all becoming lost arts. The
current trend is to slather a coat of bondo on and sanding it out. I
still have all my picks and slappers in the box and use them if I need
them.

Good man. Keep it up and you'll put Peter Klut out of business <g>

[c***@webtv.net]

Lead and Tin mix, I think it was.It was used in auto body work.I forget
what the mix ratio was.I think there were at least two different
mix/mixture ratios.Auto factorys used a lot of back in the old
days/years.
cuhulin