Fuel pressure issue - 95 Astro - please help

[d***@gmail.com]

Can someone please help me figure this out? I am really stuck.

I have a 1995 CHEVROLET TRUCK ASTRO VAN 2WD
6 Cylinders 262 W 4.3L CPI. 105,000 miles



Symptoms:
The van is cutting out like it is running out of fuel while driving.

I let the van warm up first before a test drive. It drives okay (not
great) at first, then it starts acting like it is running out of gas.
It bogs down and stalls when I accelerate. I tried flooring it and it
wants to die. This problem is progressive meaning it is getting worse;
now it happens after just a couple miles of driving. The problem will
go away (van drives much better) after turning off the van and then
back on.


History:
Fuel pump quit working over new years. I replaced and it drove fine.
I drove one 300 mile trip then another 300 miles of city driving with
no problems.

It got real cold (irrelevant?). I drove for 25 miles with no issues.
I filled up with gas (irrelevant?) after work and drove 10 miles and it
started acting up.

The problem got worse over the next couple days (60 miles city
driving).

I changed the fuel filter which was clogged and appeared to be the
original filter. It seemed to run fine. I drove several very short
trips 5 miles which may have been too short to notice symptoms. I
filled up again, then drove 15 miles.

It acted worse than ever.

I checked the fuel pressure. It was about 62psi with the pump running
but dropped to 6psi when not running.

I replaced the CPI unit and the nut kit (fuel lines). The fuel
regulator was leaking. I could see where the gas had cleaned the
inside of the plenum.

I retested fuel pressure. It was 62psi with the pump running but
dropped to 22psi with the pump off. My Haynes manual said it should
only drop 3-10psi with the key off.

I road tested the van and it has the same symptoms.

Shouldn't I be able to see or smell the gas that bleeds off? I
don't see any gas (I will double check tonight).

Now I do not know what to do. I am stuck. Can anyone offer any
suggestion?

[Don Baker]

There is a "sock" type filter for the big chunks at the fuel pickup in the
tank. If these plug / clog or collapse they can cause similar problems.

Good luck,
Don

Post by d***@gmail.com
Can someone please help me figure this out? I am really stuck.
I have a 1995 CHEVROLET TRUCK ASTRO VAN 2WD
6 Cylinders 262 W 4.3L CPI. 105,000 miles
The van is cutting out like it is running out of fuel while driving.
I let the van warm up first before a test drive. It drives okay (not
great) at first, then it starts acting like it is running out of gas.
It bogs down and stalls when I accelerate. I tried flooring it and it
wants to die. This problem is progressive meaning it is getting worse;
now it happens after just a couple miles of driving. The problem will
go away (van drives much better) after turning off the van and then
back on.
Fuel pump quit working over new years. I replaced and it drove fine.
I drove one 300 mile trip then another 300 miles of city driving with
no problems.
It got real cold (irrelevant?). I drove for 25 miles with no issues.
I filled up with gas (irrelevant?) after work and drove 10 miles and it
started acting up.
The problem got worse over the next couple days (60 miles city
driving).
I changed the fuel filter which was clogged and appeared to be the
original filter. It seemed to run fine. I drove several very short
trips 5 miles which may have been too short to notice symptoms. I
filled up again, then drove 15 miles.
It acted worse than ever.
I checked the fuel pressure. It was about 62psi with the pump running
but dropped to 6psi when not running.
I replaced the CPI unit and the nut kit (fuel lines). The fuel
regulator was leaking. I could see where the gas had cleaned the
inside of the plenum.
I retested fuel pressure. It was 62psi with the pump running but
dropped to 22psi with the pump off. My Haynes manual said it should
only drop 3-10psi with the key off.
I road tested the van and it has the same symptoms.
Shouldn't I be able to see or smell the gas that bleeds off? I
don't see any gas (I will double check tonight).
Now I do not know what to do. I am stuck. Can anyone offer any
suggestion?

[helper]

Fuel pressure is lower on a fuel injection car than with carburetor I read once. With my 93 Sonoma, past problems were most often with sensors in the fuel injection and smog system. I have in the past replaced the fuel pump in the tank (did so by raising truck bed to gain access), but first better to invest in a code checker, auto suppliers have them for around $25. Sensors regulate fuel, it could be throttle position sensor, or temperature sensor (when cold it tells computer to use more fuel for same rpm). Under the dash is a socket, you plug in the checker, it begins flashing a code with a light in the instrument area. There are 6 to 8 sensors. Look up in a repair manual of that car, and it will tell you how it is done and show the code meanings for you to localize what the problem is before spending too much

[Xeno]

Post by helper
Fuel pressure is lower on a fuel injection car than with carburetor I

This first sentence is total bullshit so ...

<snip the rest>

[Snag]

Post by Xeno

Post by helper
Fuel pressure is lower on a fuel injection car than with carburetor I

This first sentence is total bullshit so ...
<snip the rest>

Another point - I think '95 was the last year for OBDC1 ... And you
read the codes by shorting 2 pins in the plug then counting how many
times the check engine light flashes .

[larson]

That's the same as what code checker does with odb 1 system, yr 93 or older. Don't think fuel pressure was 65 lbs. On my 93 Sonoma similar problem was throttle position sensor. That tells computer how much gas goes to injectors. it was sporadic as I recall. And code checking doesn't work perfect but pretty good

[helper]

When engine quits and won't start, try putting a little gas in throttle body and put air filter back on (to avoid fire), then try starting to see if it runs for a few seconds. That might be good test to know it isn't getting fuel during those situations. Sometimes hard to know if fuel or electrical is problem
I think my 93 sonoma was acting up, cutting out at times a few years ago, recalling as you mentioned fuel pressure. Someone told me that fuel pumps go out gradually, used to be easy to replace too. The in-tank variety can be hard to get to. A van might have a cover on the van floor to access the top of the tank, and even allow you to remove the pump assembly from the top of tank--a ring that turns unlocks some tabs and then pump assembly lifts out, that part fairly easy. New pump fixed my cutting out, cost about $70 online.
When stumped, I go to a repair shop and get estimate how much to diagnose problem. They used to do that for around $100. Then fix it yourself from their advice. They have better equipment and are used to solving mysteries

[Paul in Houston TX]

Post by helper
When engine quits and won't start, try putting a little gas in throttle
body and put air filter back on (to avoid fire), then try starting to
see if it runs for a few seconds.  That might be good test to know it
isn't getting fuel during those situations.  Sometimes hard to know if
fuel or electrical is problem.
  I think my 93 sonoma was acting up, cutting out at times a few years
ago, recalling as you mentioned fuel pressure. Someone told me that fuel
pumps go out gradually, used to be easy to replace too.  The in-tank
variety can be hard to get to.  A van might have a cover on the van
floor to access the top of the tank, and even allow you to remove the
pump assembly from the top of tank--a ring that turns unlocks some tabs
and then pump assembly lifts out, that part fairly easy.  New pump fixed
my cutting out, cost about $70 online.     When stumped, I go to a
repair shop and get estimate how much to diagnose problem.  They used to
do that for around $100.  Then fix it yourself from their advice.  They
have better equipment and are used to solving mysteries.

The original post is 19 years old. It's unlikely that the OP is still
driving his 30 year old Astro. Metal fatigue would have broken it in
half about 10 years ago.

[AMuzi]

Post by helper
When engine quits and won't start, try putting a little
gas in throttle body and put air filter back on (to avoid
fire), then try starting to see if it runs for a few
seconds.  That might be good test to know it isn't getting
fuel during those situations.  Sometimes hard to know if
fuel or electrical is problem.
   I think my 93 sonoma was acting up, cutting out at
times a few years ago, recalling as you mentioned fuel
pressure. Someone told me that fuel pumps go out
gradually, used to be easy to replace too.  The in-tank
variety can be hard to get to.  A van might have a cover
on the van floor to access the top of the tank, and even
allow you to remove the pump assembly from the top of
tank--a ring that turns unlocks some tabs and then pump
assembly lifts out, that part fairly easy.  New pump fixed
my cutting out, cost about $70 online.     When stumped, I
go to a repair shop and get estimate how much to diagnose
problem.  They used to do that for around $100.  Then fix
it yourself from their advice.  They have better equipment
and are used to solving mysteries.

The original post is 19 years old.  It's unlikely that the
OP is still driving his 30 year old Astro.  Metal fatigue
would have broken it in half about 10 years ago.

Yep and prices reflect that degradation
https://buysellsearch.com/vehicles/cars/mk-chevrolet/ml-astro/bd-van/yr-1995

[aarcuda69062]

In article

Post by d***@gmail.com
Can someone please help me figure this out? I am really stuck.
I have a 1995 CHEVROLET TRUCK ASTRO VAN 2WD
6 Cylinders 262 W 4.3L CPI. 105,000 miles
The van is cutting out like it is running out of fuel while driving.
I let the van warm up first before a test drive. It drives okay (not
great) at first, then it starts acting like it is running out of gas.
It bogs down and stalls when I accelerate. I tried flooring it and it
wants to die. This problem is progressive meaning it is getting worse;
now it happens after just a couple miles of driving. The problem will
go away (van drives much better) after turning off the van and then
back on.
Fuel pump quit working over new years. I replaced and it drove fine.
I drove one 300 mile trip then another 300 miles of city driving with
no problems.
It got real cold (irrelevant?). I drove for 25 miles with no issues.
I filled up with gas (irrelevant?) after work and drove 10 miles and it
started acting up.
The problem got worse over the next couple days (60 miles city
driving).
I changed the fuel filter which was clogged and appeared to be the
original filter. It seemed to run fine. I drove several very short
trips 5 miles which may have been too short to notice symptoms. I
filled up again, then drove 15 miles.
It acted worse than ever.
I checked the fuel pressure. It was about 62psi with the pump running
but dropped to 6psi when not running.
I replaced the CPI unit and the nut kit (fuel lines). The fuel
regulator was leaking. I could see where the gas had cleaned the
inside of the plenum.
I retested fuel pressure. It was 62psi with the pump running but
dropped to 22psi with the pump off. My Haynes manual said it should
only drop 3-10psi with the key off.
I road tested the van and it has the same symptoms.
Shouldn't I be able to see or smell the gas that bleeds off? I
don't see any gas (I will double check tonight).
Now I do not know what to do. I am stuck. Can anyone offer any
suggestion?

You need to determine if this thing is going too rich or too
lean when it acts up. Ideally, a test drive with a scan tool
installed so you can view O2 sensor volts and the fuel trim
numbers. Plug color and watching the O2 sensor on a DVOM is a
do-able method if you don't have a scan tool.

The fuel pressure shouldn't drop off as it does, weak pumps
and/or a failed pulsator usually manifest themselves as hard
starting after an overnight set. Entirely possible that it's the
CPI and regulator (again), who did you get those components from?

Did you re-use the old pulsator when you changed out the pump?
Pulsator = the oval shaped piece that connects the fuel pump
outlet to the sending unit , black plastic with a stamped tin
cover.

[d***@gmail.com]

I do not think I replaced the pulsator, unless it came with my autozone
pump. The CPI and nut kit where ACDelco parts.

I kind of think it might be the catlytic converter now. That is what a
couple people have told me and it seems like these symptoms could be
caused by a clogged converter. I will test it first since it is a bit
easier. Then I guess I will either do the test drive you suggested and
change the pulsator.

Thanks for the suggestions,

Dave

[Lawrence Glickman]

Post by d***@gmail.com
I do not think I replaced the pulsator, unless it came with my autozone
pump. The CPI and nut kit where ACDelco parts.
I kind of think it might be the catlytic converter now. That is what a
couple people have told me and it seems like these symptoms could be
caused by a clogged converter. I will test it first since it is a bit
easier. Then I guess I will either do the test drive you suggested and
change the pulsator.
Thanks for the suggestions,
Dave

If you would get a data logger, do they have them for a 1995 car/van ?
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

My fuel pressure is _supposed to be between 35 and 45 psi according to
the book, but I see on SOME occasions it goes outside those bounds,
especially while idling. In fact, it seems only while idling. So I
don't know what that is all about. NO DTC CODES either thrown or
pending, according to my OBDII scanner. But my data logger picked
this up. Notice what happens at the 13 minute point when I was idling
the car while eating lunch one day....

Fuel pressure doesn't come back to normal until minute 25, when I
accelerate and travel off again.

For 11 minutes my system was over pressurized, but no MIL or DTC
codes. And out of 115 trips on this particular log, it only happened
this _once_.

Anyhow, if you can fit a data logger on a 95 Astrovan ( haven't a clue
if you have an OBDII port ) you can use a data logging chip to watch
your fuel system while you drive around.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
CAUTION:
BANDWIDTH BUSTER AHEAD:
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

NOTE: the three digits on the right, two to the left of the decimal
point and one to the right, show fuel pressure at 5 second intervals
from start of engine.

Time into trip is left of that

If you do this, you have narrowed down one possibility. And you can
log fuel trims right along with that.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\


Title : View / Trip Log / Trip 22 / Plot / Fuel Pressure (psi) / Start
Time
Rows : 1
Columns : 1
Column 01 : Start Time []
1/21/2005 1:56 PM

Title : View / Trip Log / Trip 22 / Plot / Fuel Pressure (psi)
Rows : 606
Columns : 2
Column 01 : Elapsed Time []
Column 02 : Fuel Pressure (psi) [psi]
0:00:00 48.7
0:00:04 47.4
0:00:09 46.6
0:00:14 46.1
0:00:19 46.6
0:00:24 44.4
0:00:29 44.8
0:00:34 43.1
0:00:39 45.7
0:00:44 40.5
0:00:49 44.8
0:00:54 39.6
0:00:59 41.8
0:01:04 39.2
0:01:09 41.3
0:01:14 40.5
0:01:19 38.3
0:01:24 38.7
0:01:29 40.5
0:01:34 41.3
0:01:39 39.2
0:01:44 38.7
0:01:49 41.8
0:01:54 40.0
0:01:59 37.9
0:02:04 40.0
0:02:09 39.2
0:02:14 40.5
0:02:19 41.3
0:02:24 38.3
0:02:29 39.2
0:02:34 40.5
0:02:39 39.2
0:02:44 40.5
0:02:49 39.6
0:02:54 40.5
0:02:59 40.5
0:03:04 38.7
0:03:09 40.0
0:03:14 38.7
0:03:19 39.2
0:03:24 39.6
0:03:29 39.2
0:03:34 37.9
0:03:39 39.6
0:03:44 38.7
0:03:49 38.7
0:03:54 39.2
0:03:59 39.2
0:04:04 38.7
0:04:09 39.6
0:04:14 40.9
0:04:19 38.7
0:04:24 38.3
0:04:29 40.0
0:04:34 40.5
0:04:39 40.0
0:04:44 39.2
0:04:49 39.6
0:04:54 40.0
0:04:59 38.7
0:05:04 40.5
0:05:09 38.7
0:05:14 40.5
0:05:19 40.0
0:05:24 38.7
0:05:29 40.5
0:05:34 39.2
0:05:39 38.7
0:05:44 38.7
0:05:49 39.6
0:05:54 41.3
0:05:59 38.7
0:06:03 38.7
0:06:08 41.3
0:06:13 37.9
0:06:18 39.6
0:06:23 38.7
0:06:28 38.7
0:06:33 38.7
0:06:38 40.0
0:06:43 39.6
0:06:48 38.3
0:06:53 40.5
0:06:58 40.5
0:07:03 39.6
0:07:08 39.6
0:07:13 40.9
0:07:18 38.7
0:07:23 38.7
0:07:28 39.2
0:07:33 39.6
0:07:38 39.6
0:07:43 37.9
0:07:48 41.3
0:07:53 41.3
0:07:58 40.0
0:08:03 41.8
0:08:08 40.9
0:08:13 38.3
0:08:18 40.5
0:08:23 38.7
0:08:28 39.6
0:08:33 38.7
0:08:38 40.5
0:08:43 40.0
0:08:48 39.2
0:08:53 39.6
0:08:58 40.9
0:09:03 39.6
0:09:08 39.6
0:09:13 40.0
0:09:18 39.6
0:09:23 41.8
0:09:28 41.3
0:09:33 41.3
0:09:38 40.5
0:09:43 42.2
0:09:48 41.3
0:09:53 42.6
0:09:58 42.6
0:10:03 44.4
0:10:08 41.3
0:10:13 42.6
0:10:18 40.9
0:10:23 44.4
0:10:28 41.3
0:10:33 43.9
0:10:38 43.1
0:10:43 44.8
0:10:48 43.9
0:10:53 44.4
0:10:58 42.2
0:11:03 41.8
0:11:08 44.8
0:11:13 44.4
0:11:18 44.8
0:11:23 46.1
0:11:28 45.3
0:11:33 43.9
0:11:38 46.1
0:11:43 42.2
0:11:48 43.1
0:11:53 46.1
0:11:58 43.9
0:12:03 45.3
0:12:07 47.0
0:12:12 44.8
0:12:17 47.9
0:12:22 45.3
0:12:27 45.7
0:12:32 46.6
0:12:37 45.3
0:12:42 45.7
0:12:47 46.6
0:12:52 46.1
0:12:57 45.3
0:13:02 46.6
0:13:07 46.1
0:13:12 46.6
0:13:17 48.3
0:13:22 47.4
0:13:27 49.2
0:13:32 46.6
0:13:37 45.3
0:13:42 48.7
0:13:47 47.9
0:13:52 48.3
0:13:57 49.6
0:14:02 49.2
0:14:07 46.6
0:14:12 47.4
0:14:17 48.3
0:14:22 47.4
0:14:27 47.4
0:14:32 49.2
0:14:37 50.5
0:14:42 49.6
0:14:47 49.2
0:14:52 48.7
0:14:57 48.7
0:15:02 50.9
0:15:07 48.3
0:15:12 51.3
0:15:17 49.6
0:15:22 48.3
0:15:27 49.2
0:15:32 53.5
0:15:37 50.5
0:15:42 51.3
0:15:47 50.0
0:15:52 50.9
0:15:57 50.9
0:16:02 50.0
0:16:07 50.5
0:16:12 53.1
0:16:17 52.6
0:16:22 49.2
0:16:27 49.6
0:16:32 51.3
0:16:37 51.3
0:16:42 51.8
0:16:47 50.5
0:16:52 51.8
0:16:57 53.1
0:17:02 52.6
0:17:07 51.8
0:17:12 52.2
0:17:17 53.1
0:17:22 51.3
0:17:27 50.9
0:17:32 51.8
0:17:37 51.8
0:17:42 52.2
0:17:47 51.3
0:17:52 53.5
0:17:57 52.6
0:18:02 52.2
0:18:06 51.3
0:18:11 50.9
0:18:16 50.0
0:18:21 51.8
0:18:26 51.8
0:18:31 53.1
0:18:36 52.2
0:18:41 52.6
0:18:46 54.0
0:18:51 53.5
0:18:56 54.0
0:19:01 51.3
0:19:06 52.6
0:19:11 52.6
0:19:16 54.8
0:19:21 51.8
0:19:26 55.3
0:19:31 53.1
0:19:36 53.5
0:19:41 52.2
0:19:46 52.6
0:19:51 53.5
0:19:56 53.1
0:20:01 55.3
0:20:06 51.3
0:20:11 55.3
0:20:16 52.6
0:20:21 54.0
0:20:26 54.4
0:20:31 58.3
0:20:36 55.3
0:20:41 54.0
0:20:46 53.5
0:20:51 54.8
0:20:56 53.5
0:21:01 55.3
0:21:06 54.0
0:21:11 54.0
0:21:16 53.1
0:21:21 54.0
0:21:26 54.4
0:21:31 53.5
0:21:36 52.2
0:21:41 54.4
0:21:46 54.4
0:21:51 54.4
0:21:56 54.4
0:22:01 55.3
0:22:06 53.1
0:22:11 54.8
0:22:16 55.7
0:22:21 54.8
0:22:26 50.9
0:22:31 54.4
0:22:36 54.0
0:22:41 54.0
0:22:46 52.2
0:22:51 54.8
0:22:56 54.8
0:23:01 54.4
0:23:06 56.1
0:23:11 56.1
0:23:16 52.6
0:23:21 55.7
0:23:26 53.1
0:23:31 54.4
0:23:36 55.7
0:23:41 55.7
0:23:46 56.1
0:23:51 54.0
0:23:56 54.4
0:24:01 54.0
0:24:06 53.5
0:24:10 53.5
0:24:15 50.9
0:24:20 51.8
0:24:25 51.8
0:24:30 55.7
0:24:35 50.5
0:24:40 51.3
0:24:45 51.8
0:24:50 50.9
0:24:55 47.0
0:25:00 46.6
0:25:05 44.8
0:25:10 50.5
0:25:15 46.1
0:25:20 46.6
0:25:25 45.3
0:25:30 42.6
0:25:35 44.8
0:25:40 45.7
0:25:45 47.0
0:25:50 46.6
0:25:55 45.7
0:26:00 44.4
0:26:05 44.4
0:26:10 47.9
0:26:15 44.4
0:26:20 47.0
0:26:25 43.9
0:26:30 43.1
0:26:35 41.8
0:26:40 44.4
0:26:45 42.2
0:26:50 45.3
0:26:55 41.3
0:27:00 43.5
0:27:05 37.0
0:27:10 43.1
0:27:15 39.2
0:27:20 38.3
0:27:25 39.6
0:27:30 40.0
0:27:35 38.3
0:27:40 40.9
0:27:45 40.5
0:27:50 38.7
0:27:55 40.0
0:28:00 40.9
0:28:05 41.3
0:28:10 39.2
0:28:15 40.9
0:28:20 38.3
0:28:25 40.0
0:28:30 40.0
0:28:35 40.5
0:28:40 39.6
0:28:45 40.0
0:28:50 40.9
0:28:55 37.9
0:29:00 38.7
0:29:05 40.0
0:29:10 39.6
0:29:15 40.0
0:29:20 39.6
0:29:25 40.0
0:29:30 40.0
0:29:35 40.5
0:29:40 40.0
0:29:45 39.2
0:29:50 42.2
0:29:55 39.6
0:30:00 38.3
0:30:05 39.2
0:30:09 40.5
0:30:14 38.3
0:30:19 40.5
0:30:24 39.2
0:30:29 40.0
0:30:34 40.5
0:30:39 42.2
0:30:44 40.5
0:30:49 40.0
0:30:54 40.5
0:30:59 39.6
0:31:04 39.2
0:31:09 42.2
0:31:14 40.5
0:31:19 40.5
0:31:24 38.7
0:31:29 40.0
0:31:34 38.7
0:31:39 40.0
0:31:44 38.7
0:31:49 37.9
0:31:54 40.0
0:31:59 40.5
0:32:04 38.7
0:32:09 40.9
0:32:14 39.2
0:32:19 39.6
0:32:24 38.7
0:32:29 41.3
0:32:34 39.6
0:32:39 40.0
0:32:44 39.2
0:32:49 38.3
0:32:54 37.9
0:32:59 40.9
0:33:04 39.6
0:33:09 38.7
0:33:14 41.3
0:33:19 40.5
0:33:24 39.6
0:33:29 38.3
0:33:34 40.0
0:33:39 37.9
0:33:44 41.8
0:33:49 38.7
0:33:54 39.2
0:33:59 40.0
0:34:04 39.6
0:34:09 38.3
0:34:14 41.3
0:34:19 39.2
0:34:24 39.2
0:34:29 41.3
0:34:34 38.3
0:34:39 39.6
0:34:44 39.6
0:34:49 40.5
0:34:54 40.0
0:34:59 40.9
0:35:04 40.0
0:35:09 40.9
0:35:14 40.9
0:35:19 39.6
0:35:24 39.2
0:35:29 38.3
0:35:34 38.7
0:35:39 40.0
0:35:44 38.3
0:35:49 38.7
0:35:54 38.7
0:35:59 40.5
0:36:04 40.5
0:36:09 41.3
0:36:13 40.9
0:36:18 38.7
0:36:23 40.5
0:36:28 39.6
0:36:33 40.5
0:36:38 41.3
0:36:43 39.6
0:36:48 39.6
0:36:53 38.7
0:36:58 39.6
0:37:03 38.3
0:37:08 39.6
0:37:13 37.9
0:37:18 39.6
0:37:23 39.6
0:37:28 40.0
0:37:33 39.2
0:37:38 40.9
0:37:43 38.7
0:37:48 38.7
0:37:53 39.6
0:37:58 40.5
0:38:03 40.5
0:38:08 38.3
0:38:13 40.0
0:38:18 38.3
0:38:23 39.2
0:38:28 40.9
0:38:33 39.2
0:38:38 41.3
0:38:43 40.0
0:38:48 39.6
0:38:53 39.2
0:38:58 37.9
0:39:03 39.2
0:39:08 40.9
0:39:13 38.7
0:39:18 40.9
0:39:23 39.2
0:39:28 40.5
0:39:33 38.3
0:39:38 39.6
0:39:43 40.5
0:39:48 40.9
0:39:53 40.0
0:39:58 38.3
0:40:03 37.4
0:40:08 40.0
0:40:13 40.5
0:40:18 40.0
0:40:23 39.6
0:40:28 43.5
0:40:33 40.9
0:40:38 40.9
0:40:43 40.9
0:40:48 39.6
0:40:53 39.2
0:40:58 39.2
0:41:03 39.6
0:41:08 38.3
0:41:13 40.0
0:41:18 38.7
0:41:23 39.6
0:41:28 38.7
0:41:33 40.5
0:41:38 39.6
0:41:43 40.0
0:41:48 40.5
0:41:53 39.6
0:41:58 39.2
0:42:03 40.0
0:42:08 41.3
0:42:12 41.3
0:42:17 38.7
0:42:22 39.6
0:42:27 39.6
0:42:32 41.3
0:42:37 38.3
0:42:42 38.7
0:42:47 40.0
0:42:52 39.6
0:42:57 40.9
0:43:02 39.2
0:43:07 38.7
0:43:12 39.2
0:43:17 38.7
0:43:22 38.7
0:43:27 40.9
0:43:32 40.0
0:43:37 35.7
0:43:42 40.5
0:43:47 38.3
0:43:52 40.0
0:43:57 40.9
0:44:02 39.2
0:44:07 39.2
0:44:12 39.2
0:44:17 40.9
0:44:22 39.6
0:44:27 40.5
0:44:32 39.2
0:44:37 40.9
0:44:42 40.5
0:44:47 38.7
0:44:52 38.7
0:44:57 38.7
0:45:02 39.2
0:45:07 40.0
0:45:12 41.3
0:45:17 40.5
0:45:22 39.2
0:45:27 40.0
0:45:32 38.7
0:45:37 41.3
0:45:42 39.2
0:45:47 40.5
0:45:52 40.0
0:45:57 41.3
0:46:02 40.9
0:46:07 41.3
0:46:12 38.7
0:46:17 40.0
0:46:22 41.3
0:46:27 39.6
0:46:32 39.6
0:46:37 37.9
0:46:42 40.0
0:46:47 40.0
0:46:52 39.2
0:46:57 39.2
0:47:02 39.6
0:47:07 38.7
0:47:12 40.0
0:47:17 39.2
0:47:22 39.2
0:47:27 40.0
0:47:32 40.0
0:47:37 40.9
0:47:42 38.3
0:47:47 41.3
0:47:52 37.9
0:47:57 38.7
0:48:02 41.8
0:48:07 38.7
0:48:12 39.2
0:48:16 41.3
0:48:21 38.7
0:48:26 39.6
0:48:31 40.5
0:48:36 40.5
0:48:41 39.2
0:48:46 38.7
0:48:51 39.6
0:48:56 40.5
0:49:01 39.2
0:49:06 39.2
0:49:11 39.6
0:49:16 40.9
0:49:21 41.8
0:49:26 40.5
0:49:31 41.3
0:49:36 41.8
0:49:41 39.6
0:49:46 38.7
0:49:51 37.9
0:49:56 39.2
0:50:01 40.9
0:50:06 38.7
0:50:11 41.3
0:50:16 38.7

Title : View / Trip Log / Trip 22 / Plot / Fuel Pressure (psi) / End
Time
Rows : 1
Columns : 1
Column 01 : End Time []
1/21/2005 2:20 PM

[Steve W.]

Bad tank of gas with lot's of water/crud. It keeps plugging things up.

Post by d***@gmail.com
Fuel pump quit working over new years. I replaced and it drove fine.
I drove one 300 mile trip then another 300 miles of city driving with
no problems.
It got real cold (irrelevant?). I drove for 25 miles with no issues.
I filled up with gas (irrelevant?) after work and drove 10 miles and it
started acting up.

Notice how it started right after you filled up?
Pump out the tank. Fill with known good fuel. Replace the fuel filter
again.
Brt the problem goes away.
--
Steve Williams
Near Cooperstown, New York

Pacifism - The theory that if they'd fed
Jeffrey Dahmer enough human flesh,
he'd have become a vegan.

Post by d***@gmail.com
Can someone please help me figure this out? I am really stuck.
I have a 1995 CHEVROLET TRUCK ASTRO VAN 2WD
6 Cylinders 262 W 4.3L CPI. 105,000 miles
The van is cutting out like it is running out of fuel while driving.
I let the van warm up first before a test drive. It drives okay (not
great) at first, then it starts acting like it is running out of gas.
It bogs down and stalls when I accelerate. I tried flooring it and it
wants to die. This problem is progressive meaning it is getting worse;
now it happens after just a couple miles of driving. The problem will
go away (van drives much better) after turning off the van and then
back on.
Fuel pump quit working over new years. I replaced and it drove fine.
I drove one 300 mile trip then another 300 miles of city driving with
no problems.
It got real cold (irrelevant?). I drove for 25 miles with no issues.
I filled up with gas (irrelevant?) after work and drove 10 miles and it
started acting up.
The problem got worse over the next couple days (60 miles city
driving).
I changed the fuel filter which was clogged and appeared to be the
original filter. It seemed to run fine. I drove several very short
trips 5 miles which may have been too short to notice symptoms. I
filled up again, then drove 15 miles.
It acted worse than ever.
I checked the fuel pressure. It was about 62psi with the pump running
but dropped to 6psi when not running.
I replaced the CPI unit and the nut kit (fuel lines). The fuel
regulator was leaking. I could see where the gas had cleaned the
inside of the plenum.
I retested fuel pressure. It was 62psi with the pump running but
dropped to 22psi with the pump off. My Haynes manual said it should
only drop 3-10psi with the key off.
I road tested the van and it has the same symptoms.
Shouldn't I be able to see or smell the gas that bleeds off? I
don't see any gas (I will double check tonight).
Now I do not know what to do. I am stuck. Can anyone offer any
suggestion?

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[d***@gmail.com]

I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.

This is getting expensive :(

[d***@gmail.com]

I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.

This is getting expensive :(

[Lawrence Glickman]

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

The only way I know of monitoring your fuel pressure "while you are
driving around" is to have somebody plugged into your OBDII connector
with a real-time scanner, OR, use a data logger ( e.g. Davis
DriveRight CarChip, or record on a portable PC with a program like
AutoTap ).

I find that static one-shot readings don't really tell the whole story
of what is going on, that is why I keep a data logger plugged into the
OBDII port all the time. At 5 second test sweeps, it monitors up to
25 continuous hours of running time. At 60 second intervals, 300
continuous hours of running time. I keep it at the 5 seconds sampling
frequency and can watch what is really going on during all kinds of
driving conditions.

I might pull it out ever 2 or 3 weeks and look at the graphs. If
everything looks OK, I clear the chip memory and plug it back in.
Even once a month would be OK, as I've never used more than 22% of the
memory although I take a _lot_ of short trips.

You can then discard the data, or save it to a file for future
reference. I call it my "flight recorder."

Lg

[Bob]

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

The only way I know of monitoring your fuel pressure "while you are
driving around" is to have somebody plugged into your OBDII connector
with a real-time scanner, OR, use a data logger ( e.g. Davis
DriveRight CarChip, or record on a portable PC with a program like
AutoTap ).

Nice guess Larry but since his PCM has absolutely no clue what the fuel
pressure is, your data logger won't work. It may be able to moniter several
things but fuel pressure isn't among them.
Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman
I find that static one-shot readings don't really tell the whole story
of what is going on, that is why I keep a data logger plugged into the
OBDII port all the time. At 5 second test sweeps, it monitors up to
25 continuous hours of running time. At 60 second intervals, 300
continuous hours of running time. I keep it at the 5 seconds sampling
frequency and can watch what is really going on during all kinds of
driving conditions.
I might pull it out ever 2 or 3 weeks and look at the graphs. If
everything looks OK, I clear the chip memory and plug it back in.
Even once a month would be OK, as I've never used more than 22% of the
memory although I take a _lot_ of short trips.
You can then discard the data, or save it to a file for future
reference. I call it my "flight recorder."
Lg

[TranSurgeon]

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

The only way I know of monitoring your fuel pressure "while you are
driving around" is to have somebody plugged into your OBDII connector
with a real-time scanner, OR, use a data logger ( e.g. Davis
DriveRight CarChip, or record on a portable PC with a program like
AutoTap ).

Nice guess Larry but since his PCM has absolutely no clue what the fuel
pressure is, your data logger won't work. It may be able to moniter several
things but fuel pressure isn't among them.
Bob

not directly, but here's a thought:

I get a LOT of GM trucks with a 'no 4th gear' complaint

if you drive it just right, it WILL go into 4th............but the problem
is plugged fuel filter, thus more throttle pressure, thus ECM keeps it in
third

SO:

do what I do to demonstrate to the customer where the problem
is...............monitor O2 sensors + injector pulse width

if you see O2 going lean and at the same time the IPW is getting longer and
longer, you have a fuel delivery problem.............filter or pump

just a thought

G

[Bob]

Post by d***@gmail.com

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

The only way I know of monitoring your fuel pressure "while you are
driving around" is to have somebody plugged into your OBDII connector
with a real-time scanner, OR, use a data logger ( e.g. Davis
DriveRight CarChip, or record on a portable PC with a program like
AutoTap ).

Nice guess Larry but since his PCM has absolutely no clue what the fuel
pressure is, your data logger won't work. It may be able to moniter

several

Post by Bob
things but fuel pressure isn't among them.
Bob

I get a LOT of GM trucks with a 'no 4th gear' complaint
if you drive it just right, it WILL go into 4th............but the problem
is plugged fuel filter, thus more throttle pressure, thus ECM keeps it in
third
do what I do to demonstrate to the customer where the problem
is...............monitor O2 sensors + injector pulse width
if you see O2 going lean and at the same time the IPW is getting longer and
longer, you have a fuel delivery problem.............filter or pump
just a thought
G

That's true enough Gary, but it still doesn't change the fact that Glickman
is full of shit.... yet again.... The PCM doesn't have a clue what the fuel
pressure is. It may think the engine is lean due to the feedback it gets
from the O2 sensors and increase the fuel trim to compensate. But it still
doesn't know if the problem is fuel pressure, a bad sensor, or something
else. It just knows it is having to add fuel to get an O2 response and will
set a code if it reaches a certain limit.
Bob

[TranSurgeon]

Post by Bob

Post by d***@gmail.com

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my

exaust/convert

Post by Bob

Post by d***@gmail.com

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by d***@gmail.com
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

The only way I know of monitoring your fuel pressure "while you are
driving around" is to have somebody plugged into your OBDII connector
with a real-time scanner, OR, use a data logger ( e.g. Davis
DriveRight CarChip, or record on a portable PC with a program like
AutoTap ).

Nice guess Larry but since his PCM has absolutely no clue what the fuel
pressure is, your data logger won't work. It may be able to moniter

several

Post by Bob
things but fuel pressure isn't among them.
Bob

I get a LOT of GM trucks with a 'no 4th gear' complaint
if you drive it just right, it WILL go into 4th............but the problem
is plugged fuel filter, thus more throttle pressure, thus ECM keeps it in
third
do what I do to demonstrate to the customer where the problem
is...............monitor O2 sensors + injector pulse width
if you see O2 going lean and at the same time the IPW is getting longer and
longer, you have a fuel delivery problem.............filter or pump
just a thought
G

That's true enough Gary, but it still doesn't change the fact that Glickman
is full of shit.... yet again.... The PCM doesn't have a clue what the fuel
pressure is.

oh, I know

I just thought it might help somebody else.........some one who's not
suffering from 'cranio-rectitis'

Post by Bob
It may think the engine is lean due to the feedback it gets
from the O2 sensors and increase the fuel trim to compensate. But it still
doesn't know if the problem is fuel pressure, a bad sensor, or something
else. It just knows it is having to add fuel to get an O2 response and will
set a code if it reaches a certain limit.
Bob

[d***@gmail.com]

I just test drove the van with the fuel gauge hooked up and the needle
swept between 50psi and 70psi when I accelerated. The pressure never
dropped below 50psi even while the van was running poorly.

I also drained the gas and re-changed the fuel filter and it did not
help.

I will try and better explain how it is acting.

The van always starts and runs fine.
It drives fine for a short distance then starts to run very bad,
sometimes backfires, stalls, and completely dies.

It takes as much as 10 to 15 minutes of regular city driving to cause
these symptoms or 2-3 minutes of driving under a load (when I hot rod
it).

If the van completely dies, I can turn it off for 10 seconds then right
back on and I can usually baby it home (1-2 miles). If I leave it off
for 15 minutes it usually runs quite a bit better.

I have replaced:
Leaky CPI (spider)
Inlet outlet fuel lines (nut kit)
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pump and strainer
Exhaust from O2 sensor back (waste of $$$... my dumb fault)
Drained the gas

Is it time to take it to a mechanic? I am out of ideas and do not know
what else to check. Is there a certain test that a shop could perform
that would tell me what is wrong such as a general diagnostic or run it
on a computer?

Does this still sound like a fuel delivery problem?

[TranSurgeon]

take off the goddam EGR valve and make a plate to cover the opening, and
re-test it

or take off the EGR, make sure it's fully closed, put it back on but DON'T
hook it up, and go for a drive

if your brake pedal gets 'hard to push' when this happens, it's the EGR
hanging open

Post by d***@gmail.com
I just test drove the van with the fuel gauge hooked up and the needle
swept between 50psi and 70psi when I accelerated. The pressure never
dropped below 50psi even while the van was running poorly.
I also drained the gas and re-changed the fuel filter and it did not
help.
I will try and better explain how it is acting.
The van always starts and runs fine.
It drives fine for a short distance then starts to run very bad,
sometimes backfires, stalls, and completely dies.
It takes as much as 10 to 15 minutes of regular city driving to cause
these symptoms or 2-3 minutes of driving under a load (when I hot rod
it).
If the van completely dies, I can turn it off for 10 seconds then right
back on and I can usually baby it home (1-2 miles). If I leave it off
for 15 minutes it usually runs quite a bit better.
Leaky CPI (spider)
Inlet outlet fuel lines (nut kit)
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pump and strainer
Exhaust from O2 sensor back (waste of $$$... my dumb fault)
Drained the gas
Is it time to take it to a mechanic? I am out of ideas and do not know
what else to check. Is there a certain test that a shop could perform
that would tell me what is wrong such as a general diagnostic or run it
on a computer?
Does this still sound like a fuel delivery problem?

[Rich]

Post by d***@gmail.com
I just test drove the van with the fuel gauge hooked up and the needle
swept between 50psi and 70psi when I accelerated. The pressure never
dropped below 50psi even while the van was running poorly.
I also drained the gas and re-changed the fuel filter and it did not
help.
I will try and better explain how it is acting.
The van always starts and runs fine.
It drives fine for a short distance then starts to run very bad,
sometimes backfires, stalls, and completely dies.
It takes as much as 10 to 15 minutes of regular city driving to cause
these symptoms or 2-3 minutes of driving under a load (when I hot rod
it).
If the van completely dies, I can turn it off for 10 seconds then right
back on and I can usually baby it home (1-2 miles). If I leave it off
for 15 minutes it usually runs quite a bit better.
Leaky CPI (spider)
Inlet outlet fuel lines (nut kit)
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pump and strainer
Exhaust from O2 sensor back (waste of $$$... my dumb fault)
Drained the gas
Is it time to take it to a mechanic? I am out of ideas and do not know
what else to check. Is there a certain test that a shop could perform
that would tell me what is wrong such as a general diagnostic or run it
on a computer?
Does this still sound like a fuel delivery problem?

No it doesn't. Usually if you have a fuel problem the engine runs better,
if anything, as the engine warms up. Initial pressure, key on, should be
60 - 65 psi

[Steve W.]

Well you eliminated fuel problems. You say it only happens when the
engine gets warm? Go to a local electronics place and get a can of
"component cooler" (basically R-134A) Run the vehicle till it starts to
act up. Then pop the hood and spray ONE sensor/part at a time. I would
start with the ignition coil, then the base of the distributor. Then
work your way around the engine compartment. After you spray a part run
it some, when you find the bad part it should become obvious since the
problem should go away. I would almost guess the coil is breaking down
when it gets hot, but there are a LOT of sensors that can be affected by
heat.
--
Steve

Post by d***@gmail.com
I just test drove the van with the fuel gauge hooked up and the needle
swept between 50psi and 70psi when I accelerated. The pressure never
dropped below 50psi even while the van was running poorly.
I also drained the gas and re-changed the fuel filter and it did not
help.
I will try and better explain how it is acting.
The van always starts and runs fine.
It drives fine for a short distance then starts to run very bad,
sometimes backfires, stalls, and completely dies.
It takes as much as 10 to 15 minutes of regular city driving to cause
these symptoms or 2-3 minutes of driving under a load (when I hot rod
it).
If the van completely dies, I can turn it off for 10 seconds then right
back on and I can usually baby it home (1-2 miles). If I leave it off
for 15 minutes it usually runs quite a bit better.
Leaky CPI (spider)
Inlet outlet fuel lines (nut kit)
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pump and strainer
Exhaust from O2 sensor back (waste of $$$... my dumb fault)
Drained the gas
Is it time to take it to a mechanic? I am out of ideas and do not know
what else to check. Is there a certain test that a shop could perform
that would tell me what is wrong such as a general diagnostic or run it
on a computer?
Does this still sound like a fuel delivery problem?

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[Whitelightning]

Post by d***@gmail.com
I just test drove the van with the fuel gauge hooked up and the needle
swept between 50psi and 70psi when I accelerated. The pressure never
dropped below 50psi even while the van was running poorly.
I also drained the gas and re-changed the fuel filter and it did not
help.
I will try and better explain how it is acting.
The van always starts and runs fine.
It drives fine for a short distance then starts to run very bad,
sometimes backfires, stalls, and completely dies.
It takes as much as 10 to 15 minutes of regular city driving to cause
these symptoms or 2-3 minutes of driving under a load (when I hot rod
it).
If the van completely dies, I can turn it off for 10 seconds then right
back on and I can usually baby it home (1-2 miles). If I leave it off
for 15 minutes it usually runs quite a bit better.
Leaky CPI (spider)
Inlet outlet fuel lines (nut kit)
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pump and strainer
Exhaust from O2 sensor back (waste of $$$... my dumb fault)
Drained the gas
Is it time to take it to a mechanic? I am out of ideas and do not know
what else to check. Is there a certain test that a shop could perform
that would tell me what is wrong such as a general diagnostic or run it
on a computer?
Does this still sound like a fuel delivery problem?

I am going out on a limb here and make a guess, actually a couple. One this
thing has a distributor. And as such it has a pick up coil, a magnet, and a
module. I would want a good scope put on the rig and watch the wave
patterns on the pick-up coil. while some of it sounds fuel related, the
back fire doesn't. I have ran into the same general symptoms you describe
in the past, except the time to restart was usually longer, but then by the
time I got them they were pretty much undrivable they had gotten so bad..
At 105,000 miles the bushings in the distributor are probably worn as well.
But I wouldn't change unless you can get a scope to verify which means
getting it to act up while its hooked up.
Whitelightning

[d***@gmail.com]

I took off EGR valve made sure it was closed then reinstalled without
the plug. It did not help.

One more thing I just noticed. When the van is not acting up and I
turn it on then back off it will hold 25lbs of fuel pressure.

When it is acting up and I turn it off it will not hold any fuel
pressure. Even if I leave it off for a couple minutes it still will
not hold fuel pressure.

After an extended period of time (hours or overnight) it will again
hold 25lbs of fuel pressure when the key is off.

Also, I misspoke earlier. It is not backfiring it is popping back at
the engine. I am not sure what you call that. Sorry for the confusion.

btw, I just rented (deposit/free) an Actron Super AutoScanner. I will
read the manual today and post whatever data I can get out of it
tonight.

Thanks for the suggestions,

[d***@gmail.com]

Summarizing

Fuel/Ignition/Other? Please help

I have been trying to figure this out with no success. Can you guys
take a look and offer any suggestions you might have?


Vehicle:
1995 CHEVROLET TRUCK ASTRO VAN
2WD Automatic Transmission
6 Cylinders 4.3L CPI
105,000 miles

Symptoms:
The van always starts and runs fine for at least a minute or two.
However after a short distance it will not accelerate properly and it
will try to stall. As it progresses I might get some popping at the
engine and eventually it will die. When I press the accelerator it
acts like it wants to die.

It takes as much as 10 to 15 minutes of regular city driving to cause
these symptoms or 2-3 minutes of driving under a load (when I hot-rod
it). It does not seem to be directly related to engine temperature.

If the van completely dies, I can turn it off for 10 seconds then right
back on and it definitely drives better (not completely normal). If I
leave it off for 15 minutes it usually runs quite a bit better.
Overnight and it runs normal when I first start it.

Parts Replaced:
Leaky CPI (spider)
Inlet outlet fuel lines (nut kit)
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pump and strainer
Exhaust from O2 sensor back
Drained the gas
Ignition coil
PCV Valve
Tune up (plugs,wires,cap,rotor)(6 months ago)
Oxygen sensor (6 months ago)


Current Diagnostic (I am a complete armature so some/all items could be
irrelevant)

EGR (sticking)
Tapping/ticking started after I removed/checked this. I am pretty sure
I just need to take it off again and clean or replace. I do not
believe this is my main problem because I took it off, closed the
valve, and reinstalled without hooking it up. This test did not change
any of the symptoms listed above.

Distributor
I just examined the distributor and one of the plug wires and probes on
the distributor was severely corroded; the rest were fine. I will get
a new cap and wire tonight and check the plug.

Fuel Pressure
Test with a fuel pressure gauge. After sitting overnight, turn key on
and I get 62psi pressure (in spec). Turn key off and it holds 25psi
pressure (there is no spec that I know of for this).
While running it never drops below 50psi (in spec) even when it is
acting up. While it is acting up and I accelerate the needle will
sweep between 50psi to 70psi very fast.
What concerns me is that after it is acting up and I turn the key off
the fuel pressure instantly DROPS to 0psi. It this an issue?
If I let the van sit for two minutes and turn the key on (pump on) then
back off again it will still drop to 0psi. If I let it sit overnight
it will again hold 25psi of pressure with the key off.

Codes
The check engine light (service engine soon) does work, but does NOT
turn on. I do not get any codes. To verify I rented an "Actron
Super AutoScanner" and checked the codes. I do not get any.

I know I can monitor real time data with this device (scanner) but I do
not know what to look for (suggestions?).



Do you guys have any suggestions on what to try next? I am about out
of ideas and I am thinking about taking it to the shop. If/when I take
it in, do you have and advice on what type of shop or diagnostic test I
should ask them to run (or not to run)?

[Steve W.]

An engine needs thre things to run
Air, Fuel, Ignition source
Air is a given unless your covering the air cleaner with a bag.
Fuel - about the only thing you didn't replace was the tank, so I would
say your OK there

The symptoms point to a heat related failure. Some component is getting
hot enough to shut down the engine.
Since you still have fuel pressure when the engine dies it isn't a bad
pump.
It also isn't likely the EGR since they don't normally shut down an
engine and then clear up when they get cool. They are either stuck open
(which causes REAL bad idle on the 4.3 and an engine that will not idle
hot or cold) or they don't work at all.


Ignition?
You said you found a cruddy wire end. One usually won't do much but
cause missfiring in that cylinder. I has a problem with the wifes 94 4.3
that was a bad set of plug wires. It caused massive missfiring but no
real problem with running or acceleration. Just bucking under load.
(common symptom FYI).

Bad plugs- Not likely since they fire OK when cold. Plus for the engine
to quit they all have to stop working.

Plug wires- Same as above BUT they could cause crossfiring.

Cap - Usually causes missfires if the cap is bad.

Rotor - possible but not real likely.

Coil- very possible- it could be shorting out internally when it gets
warm enough.

Ignition Module - possible for the above reason, but they usually just
fail.

Computer - It's not showing codes which is not unusual for an OBD I.5
vehicle (oddball that GM used in 95 on some vehicles) they mainly show a
code only when an item totally fails, unlike OBD II that can tell you
that a sensor is just getting weak. It could have a bad connection on
the main connection though.

Main wiring harness connection on the firewall - It has been a culprit a
few times for heat related problems. It gets warm and the connection
opens.

It is also possible that it could be a bad connection to one of the
above components.
--
Steve Williams

Post by d***@gmail.com
Summarizing
Fuel/Ignition/Other? Please help
I have been trying to figure this out with no success. Can you guys
take a look and offer any suggestions you might have?
1995 CHEVROLET TRUCK ASTRO VAN
2WD Automatic Transmission
6 Cylinders 4.3L CPI
105,000 miles
The van always starts and runs fine for at least a minute or two.
However after a short distance it will not accelerate properly and it
will try to stall. As it progresses I might get some popping at the
engine and eventually it will die. When I press the accelerator it
acts like it wants to die.
It takes as much as 10 to 15 minutes of regular city driving to cause
these symptoms or 2-3 minutes of driving under a load (when I hot-rod
it). It does not seem to be directly related to engine temperature.
If the van completely dies, I can turn it off for 10 seconds then right
back on and it definitely drives better (not completely normal). If I
leave it off for 15 minutes it usually runs quite a bit better.
Overnight and it runs normal when I first start it.
Leaky CPI (spider)
Inlet outlet fuel lines (nut kit)
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pump and strainer
Exhaust from O2 sensor back
Drained the gas
Ignition coil
PCV Valve
Tune up (plugs,wires,cap,rotor)(6 months ago)
Oxygen sensor (6 months ago)
Current Diagnostic (I am a complete armature so some/all items could be
irrelevant)
EGR (sticking)
Tapping/ticking started after I removed/checked this. I am pretty sure
I just need to take it off again and clean or replace. I do not
believe this is my main problem because I took it off, closed the
valve, and reinstalled without hooking it up. This test did not change
any of the symptoms listed above.
Distributor
I just examined the distributor and one of the plug wires and probes on
the distributor was severely corroded; the rest were fine. I will get
a new cap and wire tonight and check the plug.
Fuel Pressure
Test with a fuel pressure gauge. After sitting overnight, turn key on
and I get 62psi pressure (in spec). Turn key off and it holds 25psi
pressure (there is no spec that I know of for this).
While running it never drops below 50psi (in spec) even when it is
acting up. While it is acting up and I accelerate the needle will
sweep between 50psi to 70psi very fast.
What concerns me is that after it is acting up and I turn the key off
the fuel pressure instantly DROPS to 0psi. It this an issue?
If I let the van sit for two minutes and turn the key on (pump on) then
back off again it will still drop to 0psi. If I let it sit overnight
it will again hold 25psi of pressure with the key off.
Codes
The check engine light (service engine soon) does work, but does NOT
turn on. I do not get any codes. To verify I rented an "Actron
Super AutoScanner" and checked the codes. I do not get any.
I know I can monitor real time data with this device (scanner) but I do
not know what to look for (suggestions?).
Do you guys have any suggestions on what to try next? I am about out
of ideas and I am thinking about taking it to the shop. If/when I take
it in, do you have and advice on what type of shop or diagnostic test I
should ask them to run (or not to run)?

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[ed]

Post by Steve W.
An engine needs thre things to run
Air, Fuel, Ignition source
Air is a given unless your covering the air cleaner with a bag.
Fuel - about the only thing you didn't replace was the tank, so I would
say your OK there
The symptoms point to a heat related failure. Some component is getting
hot enough to shut down the engine.
Since you still have fuel pressure when the engine dies it isn't a bad
pump.
It also isn't likely the EGR since they don't normally shut down an
engine and then clear up when they get cool. They are either stuck open
(which causes REAL bad idle on the 4.3 and an engine that will not idle
hot or cold) or they don't work at all.
Ignition?
You said you found a cruddy wire end. One usually won't do much but
cause missfiring in that cylinder. I has a problem with the wifes 94 4.3
that was a bad set of plug wires. It caused massive missfiring but no
real problem with running or acceleration. Just bucking under load.
(common symptom FYI).
Bad plugs- Not likely since they fire OK when cold. Plus for the engine
to quit they all have to stop working.
Plug wires- Same as above BUT they could cause crossfiring.
Cap - Usually causes missfires if the cap is bad.
Rotor - possible but not real likely.
Coil- very possible- it could be shorting out internally when it gets
warm enough.
Ignition Module - possible for the above reason, but they usually just
fail.
Computer - It's not showing codes which is not unusual for an OBD I.5
vehicle (oddball that GM used in 95 on some vehicles) they mainly show a
code only when an item totally fails, unlike OBD II that can tell you
that a sensor is just getting weak. It could have a bad connection on
the main connection though.
Main wiring harness connection on the firewall - It has been a culprit a
few times for heat related problems. It gets warm and the connection
opens.
It is also possible that it could be a bad connection to one of the
above components.

I think I'd elmintae fuel entirely for the most part and at least slap a
gauge on that fuel pressure. Run it and shut it off see if it holds
pressure. See what the presure is when it stops running for the hell of it.

Sure the EGR is carboned up inside?(it should be getting close by now).

[ed]

Post by Steve W.
An engine needs thre things to run
Air, Fuel, Ignition source
Air is a given unless your covering the air cleaner with a bag.
Fuel - about the only thing you didn't replace was the tank, so I would
say your OK there
The symptoms point to a heat related failure. Some component is getting
hot enough to shut down the engine.
Since you still have fuel pressure when the engine dies it isn't a bad
pump.
It also isn't likely the EGR since they don't normally shut down an
engine and then clear up when they get cool. They are either stuck open
(which causes REAL bad idle on the 4.3 and an engine that will not idle
hot or cold) or they don't work at all.
Ignition?
You said you found a cruddy wire end. One usually won't do much but
cause missfiring in that cylinder. I has a problem with the wifes 94 4.3
that was a bad set of plug wires. It caused massive missfiring but no
real problem with running or acceleration. Just bucking under load.
(common symptom FYI).
Bad plugs- Not likely since they fire OK when cold. Plus for the engine
to quit they all have to stop working.
Plug wires- Same as above BUT they could cause crossfiring.
Cap - Usually causes missfires if the cap is bad.
Rotor - possible but not real likely.
Coil- very possible- it could be shorting out internally when it gets
warm enough.
Ignition Module - possible for the above reason, but they usually just
fail.
Computer - It's not showing codes which is not unusual for an OBD I.5
vehicle (oddball that GM used in 95 on some vehicles) they mainly show a
code only when an item totally fails, unlike OBD II that can tell you
that a sensor is just getting weak. It could have a bad connection on
the main connection though.
Main wiring harness connection on the firewall - It has been a culprit a
few times for heat related problems. It gets warm and the connection
opens.
It is also possible that it could be a bad connection to one of the
above components.

I think I'd elmintae fuel entirely for the most part and at least slap a
gauge on that fuel pressure. Run it and shut it off see if it holds
pressure. See what the presure is when it stops running for the hell of it.

Sure the EGR is carboned up inside?(it should be getting close by now).

[ed]

Post by Steve W.
An engine needs thre things to run
Air, Fuel, Ignition source
Air is a given unless your covering the air cleaner with a bag.
Fuel - about the only thing you didn't replace was the tank, so I would
say your OK there
The symptoms point to a heat related failure. Some component is getting
hot enough to shut down the engine.
Since you still have fuel pressure when the engine dies it isn't a bad
pump.
It also isn't likely the EGR since they don't normally shut down an
engine and then clear up when they get cool. They are either stuck open
(which causes REAL bad idle on the 4.3 and an engine that will not idle
hot or cold) or they don't work at all.
Ignition?
You said you found a cruddy wire end. One usually won't do much but
cause missfiring in that cylinder. I has a problem with the wifes 94 4.3
that was a bad set of plug wires. It caused massive missfiring but no
real problem with running or acceleration. Just bucking under load.
(common symptom FYI).
Bad plugs- Not likely since they fire OK when cold. Plus for the engine
to quit they all have to stop working.
Plug wires- Same as above BUT they could cause crossfiring.
Cap - Usually causes missfires if the cap is bad.
Rotor - possible but not real likely.
Coil- very possible- it could be shorting out internally when it gets
warm enough.
Ignition Module - possible for the above reason, but they usually just
fail.
Computer - It's not showing codes which is not unusual for an OBD I.5
vehicle (oddball that GM used in 95 on some vehicles) they mainly show a
code only when an item totally fails, unlike OBD II that can tell you
that a sensor is just getting weak. It could have a bad connection on
the main connection though.
Main wiring harness connection on the firewall - It has been a culprit a
few times for heat related problems. It gets warm and the connection
opens.
It is also possible that it could be a bad connection to one of the
above components.

I think I'd elmintae fuel entirely for the most part and at least slap a
gauge on that fuel pressure. Run it and shut it off see if it holds
pressure. See what the presure is when it stops running for the hell of it.

Sure the EGR isn't carboned up inside?(it should be getting close by now).

yeah I hate the OBD on that year. My 95 would be so much easier to fix.

[ed]

Post by Steve W.
An engine needs thre things to run
Air, Fuel, Ignition source
Air is a given unless your covering the air cleaner with a bag.
Fuel - about the only thing you didn't replace was the tank, so I would
say your OK there
The symptoms point to a heat related failure. Some component is getting
hot enough to shut down the engine.
Since you still have fuel pressure when the engine dies it isn't a bad
pump.
It also isn't likely the EGR since they don't normally shut down an
engine and then clear up when they get cool. They are either stuck open
(which causes REAL bad idle on the 4.3 and an engine that will not idle
hot or cold) or they don't work at all.
Ignition?
You said you found a cruddy wire end. One usually won't do much but
cause missfiring in that cylinder. I has a problem with the wifes 94 4.3
that was a bad set of plug wires. It caused massive missfiring but no
real problem with running or acceleration. Just bucking under load.
(common symptom FYI).
Bad plugs- Not likely since they fire OK when cold. Plus for the engine
to quit they all have to stop working.
Plug wires- Same as above BUT they could cause crossfiring.
Cap - Usually causes missfires if the cap is bad.
Rotor - possible but not real likely.
Coil- very possible- it could be shorting out internally when it gets
warm enough.
Ignition Module - possible for the above reason, but they usually just
fail.
Computer - It's not showing codes which is not unusual for an OBD I.5
vehicle (oddball that GM used in 95 on some vehicles) they mainly show a
code only when an item totally fails, unlike OBD II that can tell you
that a sensor is just getting weak. It could have a bad connection on
the main connection though.
Main wiring harness connection on the firewall - It has been a culprit a
few times for heat related problems. It gets warm and the connection
opens.
It is also possible that it could be a bad connection to one of the
above components.

I think I'd elmintae fuel entirely for the most part and at least slap a
gauge on that fuel pressure. Run it and shut it off see if it holds
pressure. See what the presure is when it stops running for the hell of it.

Sure the EGR isn't carboned up inside?(it should be getting close by now).

yeah I hate the OBD on that year. My 95 would be so much easier to fix.

[Lawrence Glickman]

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 03:16:28 GMT, ed <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

Mr Ed,

I know nothin about your vehicle, can you answer a question?
Is it fuel injected?
Are any of your injectors sticking *open* allowing for the complete
loss of pressure sometimes?

Just asking.

Lg

[d***@gmail.com]

yes it is fuel injection. i just replaced the CPI (injector/spider).

Post by Lawrence Glickman
Mr Ed,
I know nothin about your vehicle, can you answer a question?
Is it fuel injected?
Are any of your injectors sticking *open* allowing for the complete
loss of pressure sometimes?
Just asking.
Lg

[Lawrence Glickman]

Post by d***@gmail.com
yes it is fuel injection. i just replaced the CPI (injector/spider).

That's probably what is called the "fuel rails" on my vehicle.
There is one rail for bank 1, another for bank 2, they are tied
together with a piece of high pressure hose.

At the end of each rail is a "test port" which is a female threaded
opening, presently each plugged with a Teflon-wrapped bolt. This is
where you can tap in with a fuel pressure gauge if so desired. Each
rail feeds 3 injectors. Appears to be a simple enough affair.

I'm wondering if you had this problem before you replaced your
*injector spider* and if that is why you replaced it. OR, if this
problem suddenly appeared -after- the spider was replaced.

And if you didn't replace the injectors, but left the old ones on, I
can't help but wonder if one is sticking open on occasion, allowing
fuel to bleed-off into the cylinder and take down the pressure in your
fuel lines when the engine is off.

Otherwise, the fuel pressure regulator is suspect, but I'm certain
you've already ruled that out.

Lg

[aarcuda69062]

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by d***@gmail.com
yes it is fuel injection. i just replaced the CPI (injector/spider).

That's probably what is called the "fuel rails" on my vehicle.
There is one rail for bank 1, another for bank 2, they are tied
together with a piece of high pressure hose.

Nope, his set up is different.
Central Port Injection (CPI)
One centrally mounted injector (the solenoid component) with six
plastic tubes, each one extends into an intake port, at the end
of each tube is a spring loaded poppet valve.
The central injector fires one time for each intake event, when
this occurs it's the combination of fuel pressure and intake
vacuum (pressure differential) that allows the poppet to open
against spring pressure.
There is also a fuel pressure regulator mounted to the side of
the CPI, inside the manifold plenum.
here's a picture;

http://www.lindertech.com/reconinj.htm

It's the fourth one down on that page.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
At the end of each rail is a "test port" which is a female threaded
opening, presently each plugged with a Teflon-wrapped bolt. This is
where you can tap in with a fuel pressure gauge if so desired. Each
rail feeds 3 injectors. Appears to be a simple enough affair.

His fuel pressure tap is at the left rear side of the intake
plenum where the fuel lines enter the intake plenum, he has
already mentioned testing the fuel pressure and posted the
results.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
I'm wondering if you had this problem before you replaced your
*injector spider* and if that is why you replaced it. OR, if this
problem suddenly appeared -after- the spider was replaced.

IIRC, most or all of the problems were there before replacement
of the CPI, the fuel pressure regulator was leaking, he knew this
because he removed the manifold tuning valve which allowed a
direct view of the fuel pressure regulator, evidence of a leak is
apparent if one sees the normal gunk found inside the manifold
washed clean in the vicinity of the fuel pressure regulator.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
And if you didn't replace the injectors, but left the old ones on, I
can't help but wonder if one is sticking open on occasion, allowing
fuel to bleed-off into the cylinder and take down the pressure in your
fuel lines when the engine is off.
Otherwise, the fuel pressure regulator is suspect, but I'm certain
you've already ruled that out.

All of these parts are new or re-built.

[Lawrence Glickman]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:07:29 GMT, aarcuda69062

Post by aarcuda69062

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by d***@gmail.com
yes it is fuel injection. i just replaced the CPI (injector/spider).

That's probably what is called the "fuel rails" on my vehicle.
There is one rail for bank 1, another for bank 2, they are tied
together with a piece of high pressure hose.

Nope, his set up is different.
Central Port Injection (CPI)
One centrally mounted injector (the solenoid component) with six
plastic tubes, each one extends into an intake port, at the end
of each tube is a spring loaded poppet valve.
The central injector fires one time for each intake event, when
this occurs it's the combination of fuel pressure and intake
vacuum (pressure differential) that allows the poppet to open
against spring pressure.
There is also a fuel pressure regulator mounted to the side of
the CPI, inside the manifold plenum.
here's a picture;
http://www.lindertech.com/reconinj.htm
It's the fourth one down on that page.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
At the end of each rail is a "test port" which is a female threaded
opening, presently each plugged with a Teflon-wrapped bolt. This is
where you can tap in with a fuel pressure gauge if so desired. Each
rail feeds 3 injectors. Appears to be a simple enough affair.

His fuel pressure tap is at the left rear side of the intake
plenum where the fuel lines enter the intake plenum, he has
already mentioned testing the fuel pressure and posted the
results.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
I'm wondering if you had this problem before you replaced your
*injector spider* and if that is why you replaced it. OR, if this
problem suddenly appeared -after- the spider was replaced.

IIRC, most or all of the problems were there before replacement
of the CPI, the fuel pressure regulator was leaking, he knew this
because he removed the manifold tuning valve which allowed a
direct view of the fuel pressure regulator, evidence of a leak is
apparent if one sees the normal gunk found inside the manifold
washed clean in the vicinity of the fuel pressure regulator.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
And if you didn't replace the injectors, but left the old ones on, I
can't help but wonder if one is sticking open on occasion, allowing
fuel to bleed-off into the cylinder and take down the pressure in your
fuel lines when the engine is off.
Otherwise, the fuel pressure regulator is suspect, but I'm certain
you've already ruled that out.

All of these parts are new or re-built.

So what is left over that could be causing his symptom of loss of ALL
fuel pressure on occasion?

What would you want to look at next as a probable cause of his
difficulties?

Lg

[aarcuda69062]

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by aarcuda69062
All of these parts are new or re-built.

So what is left over that could be causing his symptom of loss of ALL
fuel pressure on occasion?

It could be any of the parts he's already replaced.
The fuel pressure bleeding off at rest can only occur in three
places;
1) Injector (CPI) assembly
2) Fuel pump check valve
3) External fuel line between #s 1 and 2

It's not hard to isolate sections of the fuel system to determine
where the leak off is.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
What would you want to look at next as a probable cause of his
difficulties?

If it is fuel starvation or over fueling, it will show up on the
O2 sensor voltage and/or the fuel trim numbers viewed on a scan
tool, I mentioned this to him in a post a while back at the
beginning. He procured a scan tool but went no further with it.
He could have posted the scan data here and myself and a number
of others could have given out opinions of what was there.

He did mention in one post that his running fuel pressure dropped
to 50 psi, this is 4 psi below the absolute minimum required to
open the poppet nozzles in his CPI system (re: pressure
differential)

He'd be best off with a scan tool with recording capability, that
way he can trigger a recording on a test drive at the moment the
problem occurs, and then review the movie from the trigger point
for anything unusual.

It's also entirely possible that it isn't a fuel problem.

[Lawrence Glickman]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 00:31:13 GMT, aarcuda69062

Post by aarcuda69062

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by aarcuda69062
All of these parts are new or re-built.

So what is left over that could be causing his symptom of loss of ALL
fuel pressure on occasion?

It could be any of the parts he's already replaced.
The fuel pressure bleeding off at rest can only occur in three
places;
1) Injector (CPI) assembly
2) Fuel pump check valve
3) External fuel line between #s 1 and 2
It's not hard to isolate sections of the fuel system to determine
where the leak off is.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
What would you want to look at next as a probable cause of his
difficulties?

If it is fuel starvation or over fueling, it will show up on the
O2 sensor voltage and/or the fuel trim numbers viewed on a scan
tool, I mentioned this to him in a post a while back at the
beginning. He procured a scan tool but went no further with it.
He could have posted the scan data here and myself and a number
of others could have given out opinions of what was there.

OK. Myself, I've recorded what should be "normal" numbers for my own
engine using a data logger and storing the file(s) on my hard drive
for future reference.

I've also used my Scantool to record what parameters that reveals:
e.g.
long term fuel trim bank 1 % = 5.5, 4.7, 1.6, 2.3
short term fuel trim bank 1 %= 0.00, -2.3, 1.63, 3.9

long term fuel trim bank 2 %= 3.1, 3.9, 7.0, 7.8, 7.0, 7.8, 3.9
short term fuel trim bank 2 %= 2.3, 2.1, 0, -.08, -2.3, -3.1

and I am lead to believe, from my readings, that it is perfectly
NORMAL on my engine for bank 1 to be quite different from bank 2,
although I can't put my finger on the source of that information at
this moment.

Now goody for me, I can program my data logger to record all of the
above values in a continuous stream if so desired, so if I see any
MARKED deviation from my baseline reading, I've got a "clue."

There are many many other parameters I've recorded for baseline
purposes, too many to list here. Point is, I would have reference
values to consult. Maybe this is asking too much for anybody to do.

Post by aarcuda69062
He did mention in one post that his running fuel pressure dropped
to 50 psi, this is 4 psi below the absolute minimum required to
open the poppet nozzles in his CPI system (re: pressure
differential)
He'd be best off with a scan tool with recording capability, that
way he can trigger a recording on a test drive at the moment the
problem occurs, and then review the movie from the trigger point
for anything unusual.

Wouldn't he get what's called Freeze Frame? IOW, my data logger has
the ability to show all engine parameters it is capable of reading at
the moment a malfunction occurs. I've never had the pleasure of
seeing this happen, so I can't be more specific, IOW, I can't give you
the parameters delivered because it hasn't happened to me =yet=. But
if and when it does, I may post for General Information purposes.

Post by aarcuda69062
It's also entirely possible that it isn't a fuel problem.

Could be electrical. Intermittent loss of power to fuel pump, etc.
But I'm wondering if that wouldn't throw a DTC. Again, I've never
experienced ( on this car ) a malfunction so I can't be more specific.

Lg

[aarcuda69062]

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by aarcuda69062
If it is fuel starvation or over fueling, it will show up on the
O2 sensor voltage and/or the fuel trim numbers viewed on a scan
tool, I mentioned this to him in a post a while back at the
beginning. He procured a scan tool but went no further with it.
He could have posted the scan data here and myself and a number
of others could have given out opinions of what was there.

OK. Myself, I've recorded what should be "normal" numbers for my own
engine using a data logger and storing the file(s) on my hard drive
for future reference.

Good idea. It's always better to know what normal looks like
then trying to figure it out once things go wrong.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
e.g.
long term fuel trim bank 1 % = 5.5, 4.7, 1.6, 2.3
short term fuel trim bank 1 %= 0.00, -2.3, 1.63, 3.9
long term fuel trim bank 2 %= 3.1, 3.9, 7.0, 7.8, 7.0, 7.8, 3.9
short term fuel trim bank 2 %= 2.3, 2.1, 0, -.08, -2.3, -3.1

Add the long term fuel and the short term fuel to determine the
total fuel correction at that instant, anything over 10-12
percent is cause for suspicion.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
and I am lead to believe, from my readings, that it is perfectly
NORMAL on my engine for bank 1 to be quite different from bank 2,
although I can't put my finger on the source of that information at
this moment.

Yes, that is true.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
Now goody for me, I can program my data logger to record all of the
above values in a continuous stream if so desired, so if I see any
MARKED deviation from my baseline reading, I've got a "clue."
There are many many other parameters I've recorded for baseline
purposes, too many to list here. Point is, I would have reference
values to consult. Maybe this is asking too much for anybody to do.

It becomes a question of whether it is possible.

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by aarcuda69062
He did mention in one post that his running fuel pressure dropped
to 50 psi, this is 4 psi below the absolute minimum required to
open the poppet nozzles in his CPI system (re: pressure
differential)
He'd be best off with a scan tool with recording capability, that
way he can trigger a recording on a test drive at the moment the
problem occurs, and then review the movie from the trigger point
for anything unusual.

Wouldn't he get what's called Freeze Frame? IOW, my data logger has
the ability to show all engine parameters it is capable of reading at
the moment a malfunction occurs.

His is a 95 model year, not yet quite OBD2, his system may not
have the capability to record freeze frame data, I also believe
that he's posted that he's not getting any fault codes, so if no
fault is being detected, no freeze frame.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
I've never had the pleasure of
seeing this happen, so I can't be more specific, IOW, I can't give you
the parameters delivered because it hasn't happened to me =yet=. But
if and when it does, I may post for General Information purposes.

Just booby-trap something.
Loose gas cap, disconnect the EGR, pop the purge flow sensor off,
etc.

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by aarcuda69062
It's also entirely possible that it isn't a fuel problem.

Could be electrical. Intermittent loss of power to fuel pump, etc.
But I'm wondering if that wouldn't throw a DTC. Again, I've never
experienced ( on this car ) a malfunction so I can't be more specific.

[Lawrence Glickman]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:43:38 GMT, aarcuda69062

Post by aarcuda69062

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by aarcuda69062
If it is fuel starvation or over fueling, it will show up on the
O2 sensor voltage and/or the fuel trim numbers viewed on a scan
tool, I mentioned this to him in a post a while back at the
beginning. He procured a scan tool but went no further with it.
He could have posted the scan data here and myself and a number
of others could have given out opinions of what was there.

OK. Myself, I've recorded what should be "normal" numbers for my own
engine using a data logger and storing the file(s) on my hard drive
for future reference.

Good idea. It's always better to know what normal looks like
then trying to figure it out once things go wrong.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
e.g.
long term fuel trim bank 1 % = 5.5, 4.7, 1.6, 2.3
short term fuel trim bank 1 %= 0.00, -2.3, 1.63, 3.9
long term fuel trim bank 2 %= 3.1, 3.9, 7.0, 7.8, 7.0, 7.8, 3.9
short term fuel trim bank 2 %= 2.3, 2.1, 0, -.08, -2.3, -3.1

Add the long term fuel and the short term fuel to determine the
total fuel correction at that instant, anything over 10-12
percent is cause for suspicion.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
and I am lead to believe, from my readings, that it is perfectly
NORMAL on my engine for bank 1 to be quite different from bank 2,
although I can't put my finger on the source of that information at
this moment.

Yes, that is true.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
Now goody for me, I can program my data logger to record all of the
above values in a continuous stream if so desired, so if I see any
MARKED deviation from my baseline reading, I've got a "clue."
There are many many other parameters I've recorded for baseline
purposes, too many to list here. Point is, I would have reference
values to consult. Maybe this is asking too much for anybody to do.

It becomes a question of whether it is possible.

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by aarcuda69062
He did mention in one post that his running fuel pressure dropped
to 50 psi, this is 4 psi below the absolute minimum required to
open the poppet nozzles in his CPI system (re: pressure
differential)
He'd be best off with a scan tool with recording capability, that
way he can trigger a recording on a test drive at the moment the
problem occurs, and then review the movie from the trigger point
for anything unusual.

Wouldn't he get what's called Freeze Frame? IOW, my data logger has
the ability to show all engine parameters it is capable of reading at
the moment a malfunction occurs.

His is a 95 model year, not yet quite OBD2, his system may not
have the capability to record freeze frame data, I also believe
that he's posted that he's not getting any fault codes, so if no
fault is being detected, no freeze frame.

Post by Lawrence Glickman
I've never had the pleasure of
seeing this happen, so I can't be more specific, IOW, I can't give you
the parameters delivered because it hasn't happened to me =yet=. But
if and when it does, I may post for General Information purposes.

Just booby-trap something.
Loose gas cap, disconnect the EGR, pop the purge flow sensor off,
etc.

That's a good idea ! ;0
I can just disconnect for example the EGR vacuum line or something
simple like that while the engine is running so I can see what will be
recorded at the moment the MIL is lighted.

Good Idea. Beats wondering what and how much information I would get
when a DTC pops up. What I mean by that, is I am currently monitoring
4 out of a possible 23 engine parameters. So when a DTC is thrown, I
don't know how much information of WHAT parameters will get logged to
the chip. This is the perfect way to find out.

Lg

Post by aarcuda69062

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by aarcuda69062
It's also entirely possible that it isn't a fuel problem.

Could be electrical. Intermittent loss of power to fuel pump, etc.
But I'm wondering if that wouldn't throw a DTC. Again, I've never
experienced ( on this car ) a malfunction so I can't be more specific.

[d***@gmail.com]

The CPI is the enitre injector assembly. I replaced it after I started
having problems.

I fuel pump died about 800 miles ago and i changed it. Then i started
have problems so I changed the CPI, exaust, EGR valve, and all other
items listed above.

Now I am really stuck. I am thinking about taking to Pep boys
tomorrow. But they will probably just run an engine diagnostic and
check the codes and fuel pressure. So I dont know what good that will
do.

[Lawrence Glickman]

Post by d***@gmail.com
The CPI is the enitre injector assembly. I replaced it after I started
having problems.

I got that information today. Sorry, so many topics I follow in
different n/g's I sometimes (often?) lose continuity between one guy's
problems and another guy's problems. I read a lot of car forums on
the WWW, which I easily confuse WWW with Usenet informations.

Post by d***@gmail.com
I fuel pump died about 800 miles ago and i changed it. Then i started
have problems

Right there, STOP !

go no further. HALT !

My $1 says this is the area of your problem. I would bet more, but
would have to smash piggy bank to get at it.

Lg

Post by d***@gmail.com
so I changed the CPI, exaust, EGR valve, and all other
items listed above.
Now I am really stuck. I am thinking about taking to Pep boys
tomorrow. But they will probably just run an engine diagnostic and
check the codes and fuel pressure. So I dont know what good that will
do.

[Bob]

Post by aarcuda69062

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by d***@gmail.com
yes it is fuel injection. i just replaced the CPI (injector/spider).

That's probably what is called the "fuel rails" on my vehicle.
There is one rail for bank 1, another for bank 2, they are tied
together with a piece of high pressure hose.

Nope, his set up is different.
Central Port Injection (CPI)

Between the bad injectors, stuck EGR's etc doncha just love the vortec?
Bob

[Steve W.]

Vortec is one great engine actually. Most of them turn lot's of miles
before giving problems. Heck the wifes has 134,000 on it. Had the EGR
off once and put a screened gasket on it, no more problem. Just put a
new fuel pump in. Oil lines replaced once. Oil and filter changes, and
normal tune up.
--
Steve Williams

Post by Bob

Post by aarcuda69062

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by d***@gmail.com
yes it is fuel injection. i just replaced the CPI

(injector/spider).

Post by Bob

Post by aarcuda69062

Post by Lawrence Glickman
That's probably what is called the "fuel rails" on my vehicle.
There is one rail for bank 1, another for bank 2, they are tied
together with a piece of high pressure hose.

Nope, his set up is different.
Central Port Injection (CPI)

Between the bad injectors, stuck EGR's etc doncha just love the vortec?
Bob

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[aarcuda69062]

Post by Bob

Post by aarcuda69062

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by d***@gmail.com
yes it is fuel injection. i just replaced the CPI (injector/spider).

That's probably what is called the "fuel rails" on my vehicle.
There is one rail for bank 1, another for bank 2, they are tied
together with a piece of high pressure hose.

Nope, his set up is different.
Central Port Injection (CPI)

Between the bad injectors, stuck EGR's etc doncha just love the vortec?
Bob

I love all GM V engines, guaranteed work for a long time!

With gasoline over $2 a gallon, selling a CPI has gotten a lot
easier.

[d***@gmail.com]

Update.

I double checked my work on the CPI install and found a problem. One
of the fuel lines was not all the way in and it was slowly leaking. I
oiled (really helped) the lines up real good and made sure it was all
the way in this time.

I gas fouled all the plugs so I have to change the plugs before I can
let you guys know if that fixed it. Also, it is still bleeding off
pressure with the key off. It has been going all the way down to
10psi.

My current guess is it is the pulsator since it was never replaced.

From what I understand this might not cause problems after the van has

been started.

I will try and change the plugs before work tomorrow and let you guys
know . I might not get finished because it is not the easiest job on
that van.

[Drewsky]

replying to daveg.01, Drewsky wrote:
I have the same problem with my van same model w vin. Did you ever find the
problem?

--
for full context, visit https://www.motorsforum.com/chevy_trucks/fuel-pressure-issue-95-astro-please-help-35769-.htm

[TaskMule]

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

Why would you do this? Did you confirm that the cat was blocked up,
or are you just throwing parts at it?

[Rich]

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

Have you replaced the external fuel filter? First thing to replace and the
cheapest.

If not that I will suspect the filter or pump in the tank. A lot of labor
there emptying the tank.

[Lawrence Glickman]

Post by Rich

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

Have you replaced the external fuel filter? First thing to replace and the
cheapest.
If not that I will suspect the filter or pump in the tank. A lot of labor
there emptying the tank.

No labor emptying tank. Use a siphon hose, and then to get the last
bits, run the engine until it stalls from no fuel. Depending on how
much fuel is in the tank now, just put it into a couple of large-sized
gasoline cans.

Lg

[Rich]

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

Have you replaced the external fuel filter? First thing to replace and the
cheapest.
If not that I will suspect the filter or pump in the tank. A lot of labor
there emptying the tank.

No labor emptying tank. Use a siphon hose, and then to get the last
bits, run the engine until it stalls from no fuel. Depending on how
much fuel is in the tank now, just put it into a couple of large-sized
gasoline cans.
Lg

Labor if you have it filled (27 Gallons) <Grin>

[ed]

Post by Rich

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

Have you replaced the external fuel filter? First thing to replace and

the

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich
cheapest.
If not that I will suspect the filter or pump in the tank. A lot of

labor

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich
there emptying the tank.

No labor emptying tank. Use a siphon hose, and then to get the last
bits, run the engine until it stalls from no fuel. Depending on how
much fuel is in the tank now, just put it into a couple of large-sized
gasoline cans.
Lg

Labor if you have it filled (27 Gallons) <Grin>

I tell ya, go back over what you've already done.
You may have a bad part in the plenum area. Also, there is a strainer in
the tank with the fuel 'assembly'. Is that replaced? That fuel assembly
is best changed completely out and not piece-mealed.

[ed]

Post by Rich

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

Have you replaced the external fuel filter? First thing to replace and

the

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich
cheapest.
If not that I will suspect the filter or pump in the tank. A lot of

labor

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich
there emptying the tank.

No labor emptying tank. Use a siphon hose, and then to get the last
bits, run the engine until it stalls from no fuel. Depending on how
much fuel is in the tank now, just put it into a couple of large-sized
gasoline cans.
Lg

Labor if you have it filled (27 Gallons) <Grin>

I tell ya, go back over what you've already done.
You may have a bad part in the plenum area. Also, there is a strainer in
the tank with the fuel 'assembly'. Is that replaced? That fuel assembly
is best changed completely out and not piece-mealed.

[Bob]

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my exaust/convert
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

Have you replaced the external fuel filter? First thing to replace and the
cheapest.
If not that I will suspect the filter or pump in the tank. A lot of labor
there emptying the tank.

No labor emptying tank. Use a siphon hose, and then to get the last
bits, run the engine until it stalls from no fuel. Depending on how
much fuel is in the tank now, just put it into a couple of large-sized
gasoline cans.
Lg

Another nice try Larry, stick a siphon hose in your Taurus and let us know
how much luck you have siphoning the fuel out of it.
Bob

[TaskMule]

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my

exaust/convert

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich

Post by d***@gmail.com
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

Have you replaced the external fuel filter? First thing to replace and the
cheapest.
If not that I will suspect the filter or pump in the tank. A lot of labor
there emptying the tank.

No labor emptying tank. Use a siphon hose, and then to get the last
bits, run the engine until it stalls from no fuel. Depending on how
much fuel is in the tank now, just put it into a couple of large-sized
gasoline cans.
Lg

Another nice try Larry, stick a siphon hose in your Taurus and let us know
how much luck you have siphoning the fuel out of it.
Bob

Actually if your removing the tank one of the first things you do is
disconnect the filler pipe. Then you siphon. It doesn't get any easier. As
for running the engine till the last bit is out, a total waste of time.

[Bob]

Post by d***@gmail.com

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my

exaust/convert

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich

Post by d***@gmail.com
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

Have you replaced the external fuel filter? First thing to replace and the
cheapest.
If not that I will suspect the filter or pump in the tank. A lot of

labor

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich
there emptying the tank.

No labor emptying tank. Use a siphon hose, and then to get the last
bits, run the engine until it stalls from no fuel. Depending on how
much fuel is in the tank now, just put it into a couple of large-sized
gasoline cans.
Lg

Another nice try Larry, stick a siphon hose in your Taurus and let us know
how much luck you have siphoning the fuel out of it.
Bob

Actually if your removing the tank one of the first things you do is
disconnect the filler pipe. Then you siphon. It doesn't get any easier. As
for running the engine till the last bit is out, a total waste of time.

Who said anything about removing the tank? Hell, the whole idea that his
fuel is contaminated was just someone's brain fart. It's time he quits
throwing parts at it and listening to nitwits like glickman and starts doing
some diagnosing.
Bob

[TaskMule]

snip

Post by Bob

Post by TaskMule
Actually if your removing the tank one of the first things you do is
disconnect the filler pipe. Then you siphon. It doesn't get any easier. As
for running the engine till the last bit is out, a total waste of time.

Who said anything about removing the tank? Hell, the whole idea that his
fuel is contaminated was just someone's brain fart. It's time he quits
throwing parts at it and listening to nitwits like glickman and starts doing
some diagnosing.
Bob

I couldn't agree more

[Lawrence Glickman]

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 14:09:01 -0500, "TaskMule"

Post by TaskMule
snip

Post by Bob

Post by TaskMule
Actually if your removing the tank one of the first things you do is
disconnect the filler pipe. Then you siphon. It doesn't get any easier.

As

Post by Bob

Post by TaskMule
for running the engine till the last bit is out, a total waste of time.

Who said anything about removing the tank? Hell, the whole idea that his
fuel is contaminated was just someone's brain fart. It's time he quits
throwing parts at it and listening to nitwits like glickman and starts

doing

Post by Bob
some diagnosing.
Bob

Foaming at the mouth again are we bobby socks?
Whatever you've got, keep it to yourself. There isn't a vaccine
presently on the market that could possibly deal with your disease.

I request to see your "credentials." Went to auto-shop at high school
perhaps? Lincoln Technical Institute, or maybe you're just a hack car
breaker who came up the hard way, breaking one car at a time along the
way.

I imagine your career has peaked, and you're never going anywhere
beyond where you are now, which is changing oil and topping up
radiators. Must suck to be you, but then, you get what you deserve.

Lg

Post by TaskMule
I couldn't agree more

Changes tune midstream.
Nitwits.
Monitoring fuel pressure is a non issue. It is easy to do. You all
try to make it sound like rocket science to boost your own egos, but
there are many amateurs that know the magic secrets you pretend to
have hoarded all to yourselves.

Lg

[Bob]

Post by Lawrence Glickman
Foaming at the mouth again are we bobby socks?
Whatever you've got, keep it to yourself. There isn't a vaccine
presently on the market that could possibly deal with your disease.
I request to see your "credentials." Went to auto-shop at high school
perhaps? Lincoln Technical Institute, or maybe you're just a hack car
breaker who came up the hard way, breaking one car at a time along the
way.
I imagine your career has peaked, and you're never going anywhere
beyond where you are now, which is changing oil and topping up
radiators. Must suck to be you, but then, you get what you deserve.
Lg

Wrong on all counts numb nuts....

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by TaskMule
I couldn't agree more

Changes tune midstream.
Nitwits.
Monitoring fuel pressure is a non issue. It is easy to do. You all
try to make it sound like rocket science to boost your own egos, but
there are many amateurs that know the magic secrets you pretend to
have hoarded all to yourselves.

For once Larry you are right........ there ARE amateurs that know a lot
about auto repair, you just aren't one of them. You are just here wasting
peoples time and resources with your useless suggestions.
Bob

[Lawrence Glickman]

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman
Foaming at the mouth again are we bobby socks?
Whatever you've got, keep it to yourself. There isn't a vaccine
presently on the market that could possibly deal with your disease.
I request to see your "credentials." Went to auto-shop at high school
perhaps? Lincoln Technical Institute, or maybe you're just a hack car
breaker who came up the hard way, breaking one car at a time along the
way.
I imagine your career has peaked, and you're never going anywhere
beyond where you are now, which is changing oil and topping up
radiators. Must suck to be you, but then, you get what you deserve.
Lg

Wrong on all counts numb nuts....

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by TaskMule
I couldn't agree more

Changes tune midstream.
Nitwits.
Monitoring fuel pressure is a non issue. It is easy to do. You all
try to make it sound like rocket science to boost your own egos, but
there are many amateurs that know the magic secrets you pretend to
have hoarded all to yourselves.

For once Larry you are right........ there ARE amateurs that know a lot
about auto repair, you just aren't one of them. You are just here wasting
peoples time and resources with your useless suggestions.
Bob

It is inescapable to the casual observer, that you NEVER ANSWER ANY
QUESTIONS, but rather just spew vitriolic.

I asked you for Credentials, evidently you have none to present.

Nuff said.

Lg

[Bob]

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Bob
For once Larry you are right........ there ARE amateurs that know a lot
about auto repair, you just aren't one of them. You are just here wasting
peoples time and resources with your useless suggestions.
Bob

It is inescapable to the casual observer, that you NEVER ANSWER ANY
QUESTIONS, but rather just spew vitriolic.
I asked you for Credentials, evidently you have none to present.
Nuff said.
Lg

You said you could get fuel pressure readings from the data stream of a 95
Astro, and you have the nerve to ask ME for credentials? You're the one
doing all the spewing.... all I did was point that fact out. Why don't you
go ahead and explain just how you can get fuel pressure readings from the
data stream..........
Bob

[Lawrence Glickman]

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Bob
For once Larry you are right........ there ARE amateurs that know a lot
about auto repair, you just aren't one of them. You are just here wasting
peoples time and resources with your useless suggestions.
Bob

It is inescapable to the casual observer, that you NEVER ANSWER ANY
QUESTIONS, but rather just spew vitriolic.
I asked you for Credentials, evidently you have none to present.
Nuff said.
Lg

You said you could get fuel pressure readings from the data stream of a 95
Astro, and you have the nerve to ask ME for credentials? You're the one
doing all the spewing.... all I did was point that fact out. Why don't you
go ahead and explain just how you can get fuel pressure readings from the
data stream..........
Bob

It is inescapable to the casual observer, that you NEVER ANSWER ANY
QUESTIONS, but rather just spew vitriolic.

I asked you for Credentials, evidently you have none to present.

Nuff said.

Lg

[Bob]

Post by Lawrence Glickman
I imagine your career has peaked, and you're never going anywhere
beyond where you are now, which is changing oil and topping up
radiators. Must suck to be you, but then, you get what you deserve.
Lg

Well gee Larry, the only road to my shop was closed for two months last
summer. While there was access to my shop through a park many customers had
a hard time finding me, taking a short cut through the park or across
neighboring lawns. One week after the road reopened we were hit with the
worst flood in this towns history (8ft deep in my shop). In spite of all
that last year was my best ever. You want credentials? I could type a long
list of them but what would be the point? The only thing that really matters
is that my customers are happy and keep coming back. By the way I rarely
work on cars any more, I have employees for that. Things are damn good and
only getting better. I get paid for repairing cars, pointing out your
stupidity I consider a public service. Of coarse if you were to quit
flapping your gums when you don't know what you're talking about my service
wouldn't be needed any more.
Bob

[Lawrence Glickman]

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman
I imagine your career has peaked, and you're never going anywhere
beyond where you are now, which is changing oil and topping up
radiators. Must suck to be you, but then, you get what you deserve.
Lg

Well gee Larry, the only road to my shop was closed for two months last
summer. While there was access to my shop through a park many customers had
a hard time finding me, taking a short cut through the park or across
neighboring lawns. One week after the road reopened we were hit with the
worst flood in this towns history (8ft deep in my shop). In spite of all
that last year was my best ever. You want credentials? I could type a long
list of them but what would be the point? The only thing that really matters
is that my customers are happy and keep coming back. By the way I rarely
work on cars any more, I have employees for that. Things are damn good and
only getting better. I get paid for repairing cars, pointing out your
stupidity I consider a public service. Of coarse if you were to quit
flapping your gums when you don't know what you're talking about my service
wouldn't be needed any more.
Bob

So you feel it is necessary to point out other people's stupidity to
them, then you are going to be a VERY BUSY person. In fact, forget
about taking time out to sleep or eat !

Lg

[Steve W.]

No problem to siphon the fuel out of a TRUCK. haven't seen one that has
anything to block the fill yet. Some AUTOS do have though.
--
Steve Williams

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich

Post by d***@gmail.com
I think that is what I will try now. I just replaced my

exaust/convert

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich

Post by d***@gmail.com
from the O2 sensor back and it did not help.
This is getting expensive :(

Have you replaced the external fuel filter? First thing to replace

and

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman

Post by Rich
the
cheapest.
If not that I will suspect the filter or pump in the tank. A lot of labor
there emptying the tank.

No labor emptying tank. Use a siphon hose, and then to get the last
bits, run the engine until it stalls from no fuel. Depending on how
much fuel is in the tank now, just put it into a couple of

large-sized

Post by Bob

Post by Lawrence Glickman
gasoline cans.
Lg

Another nice try Larry, stick a siphon hose in your Taurus and let us know
how much luck you have siphoning the fuel out of it.
Bob

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[Jessie Herrera]

Hi,
I'm assuming you have fuel injection. Your pump should pump around 35
psi. You can put a pressure gauge on your fuel line and check the
pressure. First though, I would suspect a dirty fuel filter. Sometimes
fuel injected vehicles have 2 in line filters. when one plugs up it can
cause your problem. It can also be your fuel regulator.
Good luck to you.
Jessie

Post by d***@gmail.com
Can someone please help me figure this out? I am really stuck.
I have a 1995 CHEVROLET TRUCK ASTRO VAN 2WD
6 Cylinders 262 W 4.3L CPI. 105,000 miles
The van is cutting out like it is running out of fuel while driving.
I let the van warm up first before a test drive. It drives okay (not
great) at first, then it starts acting like it is running out of gas.
It bogs down and stalls when I accelerate. I tried flooring it and it
wants to die. This problem is progressive meaning it is getting worse;
now it happens after just a couple miles of driving. The problem will
go away (van drives much better) after turning off the van and then
back on.
Fuel pump quit working over new years. I replaced and it drove fine.
I drove one 300 mile trip then another 300 miles of city driving with
no problems.
It got real cold (irrelevant?). I drove for 25 miles with no issues.
I filled up with gas (irrelevant?) after work and drove 10 miles and it
started acting up.
The problem got worse over the next couple days (60 miles city
driving).
I changed the fuel filter which was clogged and appeared to be the
original filter. It seemed to run fine. I drove several very short
trips 5 miles which may have been too short to notice symptoms. I
filled up again, then drove 15 miles.
It acted worse than ever.
I checked the fuel pressure. It was about 62psi with the pump running
but dropped to 6psi when not running.
I replaced the CPI unit and the nut kit (fuel lines). The fuel
regulator was leaking. I could see where the gas had cleaned the
inside of the plenum.
I retested fuel pressure. It was 62psi with the pump running but
dropped to 22psi with the pump off. My Haynes manual said it should
only drop 3-10psi with the key off.
I road tested the van and it has the same symptoms.
Shouldn't I be able to see or smell the gas that bleeds off? I
don't see any gas (I will double check tonight).
Now I do not know what to do. I am stuck. Can anyone offer any
suggestion?

[d***@gmail.com]

I finally got it fixed. I suspect it was the pulsator.
I ended up dropping the tank and replacing the pump, threw out the
pulsator and replaced with fuel line, replaced the main gasket and a
missing o-ring on one of the fuel lines to the tank. I am not sure if
the o-ring was lost when I dropped the tank or some other time.

It runs great now. Thank you guys so much for all you help and
suggestions!!!!!

[Edog]

My 95 Astro Van is down It's been sitting for a long time I was using it to drag the road (Dirt) it started dying like it was a fuel filter, So i replaced it, it did same, I did get it to run enough to move it, so it blocked my neighbours view, of my hot tub, it set for a while The a fried with an S-10 told me his did same, and it was the fuel pump, So I replaced it, still not running I pulled the top of the plenum off and checked the injector it seemed fine The I got a pressure setup it goes to 60 psi pump goes off and pressure droppd to 40 psi then slowly down to 30 psi, and a very slow drop to 20